AGEOD Forums

Hi and greetings from Vienna!

I’ve got a few questions!

1. Leader Ratings (Saxon Scenario, Böhmische Armee)
I tried to figure out whether Browne as an army commander provides his Corps-Commanders with boni (I know it takes one turn after army creation...). So I kept an eye on Kollowrats and Luccheses Ratings during the first game-turns. I was rather confused as there seems to be no “system” at all. Here are my results:
[SIZE="1"]
Turn 1:
Browne (army commander) 3-2-2
Kollowrat (corps) 3-0-0
Lucchese (corps) 3-1-1

Turn 2:
Browne 3-2-2
Kollowrat 4-1-0
Lucchese 3-1-1

Turn 3:
Browne 3-2-2
Kollowrat 3-0-1
Lucchese 5-2-2

Turn 4:
Browne 3-2-2
Kollowrat 5-1-0
Lucchese 4-3-1[/size]
How come?

2. Evade-Combat Order
What exactly does “evade-combat” do, apart from enabling raiding mode and increasing the chances for successfull retreat-attempts (and, prior to that, retreat-decisions?). I guess you get a retreat-attempt before combat actually starts (given that your hussars are detected by the enemy *g*)? Is the chance of a successfull retreat influenced by the same factors as when retreating from an existing battle (amongst other things the amount of cavalry in my stack and in the enemy stack which confronted my "evading" stack?).

3. Combat phases/rounds/hours/days?
I am rather confused about battle-procedure. I got tons of questions, but here is a basic one: The manual says that there are (up to) 6 rounds of combat per day. The battle starts at a range determined by weather and terrain and then decreases 1 point every round of combat. This is obviously incorrect! How can it be, e.g., that assault casualties are inflicted in a battle which lasted only 1 round (as the detailed battle report says) and started at a range of 4 (as the general battle report states)? I guess that there is another unit called “hour”, and the range decreases per hour within a battle round. Moreover, it seems that battlerounds 2,3,4,5,6 do not start at range 0, but at range 1?

4. Leaders and fire boni
Another one of my many, many questions: How do off/def-ratings affect the chances of firing elements to hit? In the forums, there are different interpretations:

The Austerlitz-Walkthrough (NPC-Forum) states that army-commanders may increase (/decrease) the ratings of corps-commanders. Corps-commanders give boni to all elements in their corps (stack) according to their (modified) off/def. ratings (5% per point). Moreover, the brigade commanders give boni according to their rating (3% per point). The exact calculation remains a mystery – two versions exist:

Example: fire value: 9; +1 brigade-leader; +3 corps-leader

Version 1:
9 x (1 + 1 x 0,03 + 3 x 0,05) x 0,04 = 0,42 (http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=1024)

Version 2:
9x4% + 1x3% + 3x5%= 54% (http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=7475 )

Then there is a completly different interpretation (http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=1024):
[SIZE="1"]„Command bonus: Each point of ability in offense, defense or assault from a leader gives a 5% bonus. Subtract the appropriate ability value of the enemy leader (offense or defense or assault) from your leaders combined ability results the command bonus modifier. If the number is negative 0 is used instead. For example, if you have a leader with 3 in offensive ability and your element fires against an element commanded by a leader with a 6 defensive ability, your command bonus modifier is 0, not -3 x 0.05. Command bonus is also altered by the command penalty for under commanded armies.“[/size]

Thank you so much in advance! I will come up with several more questions in the following days and months! I really like your games, but still I think that a comprehensive manual would be a biiiiiig improvement! It is extremely important to "read" the game, but therefore you need to understand the game engine. E.g. I want to know / get a feeling, not only which factors, but also how much they affect the performance of my elements. And I want to know how stack and element rotation works. And I want to know whether individual elements within a stack are eligible to be chosen for battle each round of combat, or rather "packs of elements" determined by unit/brigade. And concerning the decision to retreat: Is this decision based on the power-ratio of all forces in the region / the power ratio of all fighting stacks / the power ratio of individual confrontations? In other words: Does a stack that is confronted by a far superior stack force all friendly fighting/confronted stacks in the region to retreat with it? And I want to know, why "Österreich ob der Enns" and "Österreich unter der Enns" are called "Salzburg" on the map.

And I want to understand many many many more things...

I also noticed that cannon don't require command-points anymore. And they seem to move at the same speed as infantry now? Thats nice!

Oh, one more question arose (Invasion of Saxony-Scenario again; Austria, Turn 1). The "objectives screen" (F5) tells me that I get 17 victory points per turn. I checked the victory points of all cities under my control (supply filter; "lightning"-icons) and came up with a result of 11 (Dresden 3, Torgau 2, Prag 1, Königgrätz 1, Olmütz 1, Brünn 1, Wien 1, Pressburg 1). Where do the other points come from? I guess the remaining objective towns (Bautzen, Leipzig, Pirna Camp) also generate victory points, so the supply-filter doesn't tell me the full truth?

Why can I see this force? I've got detection rating 1 in this region, and the enemy stack gets a 1 hide bonus due to the mountains. So I shouldn't be able to detect any force in this region?

Hi,
Thought the manual states that :
Variable: A Leader of a Corps that is located within the Command Radius of its Army HQ has his
Strategic Rating modified by the Army Commander’s Strategic Rating. Note that a poor Army Commander can actually reduce the Strategic Ratings of his subordinate Corps Commanders.
this does not mean that the strategic rating is actually added to the strategic rating of the commanded general. In army command benefits it is stated more expliciet (though not complete):
Strategic Rating Bonus: Eligible Corps Commanders receive a Strategic Rating bonus from their Army commander. The amount of bonus that Corps commanders receive is calculated individually and based on the Army commander’s Strategic Rating. Generally, the higher the Army commander’s Strategic Rating, the greater the bonus he is able to pass on to his Corps commanders (up to a maximum bonus of four [4]). Army commanders with a Strategic Rating of 1 or 2 have the potential of passing on a negative Strategic Rating bonus (up to a maximum bonus of negative two [-2]).


Although it is not stated explicite, this means that the bonus is calculated each turn for each subordinate commander seperatly. And there is a random component to this bonus (I think this could be more clear in the text). I dont remember the formula, there will be someone along shortly that can tell you. (There are a few more not explicite documented features in the Ageod game, even though the principles are in the manual).

JacquesDeLalaing wrote:Oh, one more question arose (Invasion of Saxony-Scenario again; Austria, Turn 1). The "objectives screen" (F5) tells me that I get 17 victory points per turn. I checked the victory points of all cities under my control (supply filter; "lightning"-icons) and came up with a result of 11 (Dresden 3, Torgau 2, Prag 1, Königgrätz 1, Olmütz 1, Brünn 1, Wien 1, Pressburg 1). Where do the other points come from? I guess the remaining objective towns (Bautzen, Leipzig, Pirna Camp) also generate victory points, so the supply-filter doesn't tell me the full truth?

Yes, there are VP gains by Objectives you take from the enemy (upon capture, once only, not for control), not those you have already.

In this scenario, for Austria: $Torgau|1|$Bautzen|1|$Leipzig|3|$Berlin|5|$Dresden|3|$Pirna|7

Thank you for your answers!

@ Bertram: Oh, I see. I really didn't expect the bonus to vary each game turn! Still this does not explain the fluctuations of Kollowrats and Luccheses ratings mentioned above.

PS: This articleis incorrect for RoP, as it states:

"Army Leader Bonus:An Army Leader will 'pass down' his strategic ratic to his subordinate Corps Commanders.
An Army Commander with a Strategic Rating of 4 will pass down SR bonuses as follows:
8% of the time the Corps Cdrs receive a (+2) SR bonus 58% of the time the Corps Cdrs receive a (+1) SR bonus 33% of the time the Corps Cdrs receive a (0) SR bonus
An Army Commander with a Strategic Rating of 3 will pass down SR bonuses as follows:
50% of the time the Corps Cdrs receive a (+1) SR bonus 50% of the time the Corps Cdrs receive a (0) SR bonus
An Army Commander with a Strategic Rating of 2 will pass down SR bonuses as follows:
66% of the time the Corps Cdrs receive a (-1) SR bonus 33% of the time the Corps Cdrs receive a (0) SR bonus "

According to this, Browne (3-0-0) couldn't bestow at Strategic-rating-bonus of 2 to Kolowrat.


@ Philthib: I see, so objective cities give you a VP-boost as mentioned in the "objective screen". Still I wonder why I get 17 VP per turn (without capturing or loosing any cities). The cities I control only account for 11 VP per turn.

The manual states that an army that routs suffers additional hits. In the game, it seems, also an army that retreats suffers additional hits? ("Austria retreated on day x, suffering x hits"

Yes, an army that retreats get pursued...thus suffering hits

For the VP amount received each turn, I have to check this.

JacquesDeLalaing wrote:The manual states that an army that routs suffers additional hits. In the game, it seems, also an army that retreats suffers additional hits? ("Austria retreated on day x, suffering x hits"

yes if you retreat you take hits, and if you are routed when you retreat you take even more hits.

You take also more hits from elements which are fast (cavalry) and less if the terrain is constrained. Worst case is being pursued by cossacks in plain, unless you have a lot of cavalry, which can also reduce your own losses...

JacquesDeLalaing wrote:Hi and greetings from Vienna!

I’ve got a few questions!

1. Leader Ratings (Saxon Scenario, Böhmische Armee)

Each subordinate (corps) leader will receive different modifiers, each turn yes, in the case of a very bad army commander, he can even receive penalties.

2. Evade-Combat Order
What exactly does “evade-combat” do, apart from enabling raiding mode and increasing the chances for successfull retreat-attempts (and, prior to that, retreat-decisions?). I guess you get a retreat-attempt before combat actually starts (given that your hussars are detected by the enemy *g*)? Is the chance of a successfull retreat influenced by the same factors as when retreating from an existing battle (amongst other things the amount of cavalry in my stack and in the enemy stack which confronted my "evading" stack?).

Evade is mostly used to move without being intercepted. It can really work reliably if your force is small and/or has a lot of cavalry or skirmishers.
The retreat chance and the evade chance are not using the same formula but most if not all of the parameters used in one is used in the other, so don't worry: you'll want to have fast units in both case.

3. Combat phases/rounds/hours/days?
I am rather confused about battle-procedure. I got tons of questions, but here is a basic one: The manual says that there are (up to) 6 rounds of combat per day. The battle starts at a range determined by weather and terrain and then decreases 1 point every round of combat. This is obviously incorrect! How can it be, e.g., that assault casualties are inflicted in a battle which lasted only 1 round (as the detailed battle report says) and started at a range of 4 (as the general battle report states)? I guess that there is another unit called “hour”, and the range decreases per hour within a battle round. Moreover, it seems that battlerounds 2,3,4,5,6 do not start at range 0, but at range 1?

some wording mean the same in game term, so this can be confusing. There are 6 rounds per day, but sometime a round can be called an hour or an exchange.
The first round (which is internally round 0, not round 1 if you wonder) see the opponents start from the initial distance and exchange fire until and including close distance (distance 0). Then all subsequent rounds have a range 1 phase and a range 0 phase.

This does not mean that the first round is more lethal than the others (generally this is the contrary because of delayed commitments) because in all cases, an element can't fire more than once per ROF he has, and will assault at most once. So for the same number of elements involved, each round see roughly the same number of actions.

Bottom line, the range advantage really works for the first round, where the long range units fire before the others, then it is not really relevant. This is because the battle engine only handle ONE range, abstract, for the current battle, at a given time... So you can't have a battery being 'farther' than another element really...

Wow, thanks a lot, Pocus! This really makes sense!

Combat Rounds
To sum it up:

A battle lasts (up to) 6 Rounds per day.

Round 1 (= round 0 *g*) starts at a distance determined by weather and terrain, continues with decreasing distance and ends when one "phase" (don't know how to call that) at distance 0 (close combat) has been absolved.

The crux: A single element can still only fire (and attack in close combat) one time (the number of "shots" per "fire" is determined by the "Rate of Fire") per round, not per range/phase/distance. This means that elements with higher ranges don't get more attempts, but they get their attempt earlier than other elements with lower range. At the same range, initiative decides who goes first.

The following rounds start at distance 1 and end after 1 phase at distance 0 (total: 2 phases/distances).

Example:

In Round 1 (nice weather and open field) artillery (range 4, initiative 7) gets to fire before an enemy element of grenadiers (range 3, initiative 9). The artillery (only!) fires at distance 4, the grenadiers (only!) at distance 3. If we assume that the weather only allows for a "starting range" of 3, then artillery and grenadies both fire at distance 3 (in the initiative-order).

In Round 2 (starting at distance 1), both elements get to fire at distance 1. The greandiers probably (there is still some variation and there are other factors to be taken into account) get to fire before the artillery due to their higher initiative-value.

Leader Ratings
Uh, considering the immense fluctuations of Kollowrat and Lucchese, I'm going to have a hard time planning ahead!

Evade Combat
Does "not being intercepted" mean, that the stack with "evade-combat"-order is not confronted by enemy stacks at all (and is able to move on as it likes, even when it is detected), or that it retreats successfully when confronted (thus switching to passive and retreating to an adjacent region) before combat starts?

Taking Hits while retreating (not routing)
Alright!

New Question (please pardon me )
Most cavalry units don't inflict any fire-combat damage (neither hits nor cohesion). Still they got offensive and defensive-fire ratings. I guess they still force enemy elements to make a moral check (in this case: cohesion test) when they hit? Thus they can still force an enemy element to rout, in case they are very very lucky and score a hit?

oops, I just noticed cavalry units have got a RoF of "0". So forget about the question.

JacquesDeLalaing wrote:
Evade Combat
Does "not being intercepted" mean, that the stack with "evade-combat"-order is not confronted by enemy stacks at all (and is able to move on as it likes, even when it is detected), or that it retreats successfully when confronted (thus switching to passive and retreating to an adjacent region) before combat starts?

Hi
The first one. Cavalry, and specially light cavalry can easily completely evade combat. Its not easy to make them fight if they don't what to. But any stack can try to evade. But don't expect much succes if you carry guns and wagons.
For raids or intelligence gathering is a very good idea to use evade combat.
When evade happens, you will see a message on the log saying something like "xxx evade combat in YY region (xx%). The xx% being the chance of not being forced to fight.
Cheers

Just to be sure you get if for combat, every element is allowed to expend all his ROF in actions each round, even if the round is made of a distance 1 and distance 0 sub-phases... the distance 1 subphase will not be complete until everyone has fired to his heart content...

@ Pocus: Yes, I think I understood.

Victory Points

JacquesDeLalaing wrote:Oh, one more question arose (Invasion of Saxony-Scenario again; Austria, Turn 1). The "objectives screen" (F5) tells me that I get 17 victory points per turn. I checked the victory points of all cities under my control (supply filter; "lightning"-icons) and came up with a result of 11 (Dresden 3, Torgau 2, Prag 1, Königgrätz 1, Olmütz 1, Brünn 1, Wien 1, Pressburg 1). Where do the other points come from? I guess the remaining objective towns (Bautzen, Leipzig, Pirna Camp) also generate victory points, so the supply-filter doesn't tell me the full truth?

Unfortunately, this is confusing.

Here are the amounts of victory points per round as stated by the supply-filter (lightning-icons):
[SIZE="1"]Dresden (3)
Torgau (2)
Prag (1)
Königgrätz (1)
Olmütz (1)
Wien (1)
Brünn (1)
Pressburg (1)
Leipzig: no value
Bautzen: no value
Pirna: no symbols at all (no "cake")
[/size]
According to the manual (english version, p. 12), objectives generate victory points according to their National Morale Values as stated in the Objecitves-Screen. This is:
[SIZE="1"]Torgau (1) (1NM)
Bautzen (1) (1NM)
Leipzig (2) (3NM)
Berlin (3) (5NM)
Dresden (2) (3NM)
Pirna (3) (7NM)[/size]

So after all, I get the correct result (17 VP earned per turn) when I use this method of calculation:

When a VP-amount appears next to a city when the supply-filter is switched on, then this amount is correct. (So Torgau generates 2 VP, not 1 VP as the manual and its NM-Value make us believe.)
When no VP-amount appears (there is no value next to the lightning-icon, or there is no cake at all), then the method in the manual is correct. (So, e.g. Leipzig generates 2 VP, not "no value", as the supply-filter makes us believe.)

Thanks Jacques for spotting this discrepancy, we will revise that too.

Pocus wrote:...
Evade is mostly used to move without being intercepted. It can really work reliably if your force is small and/or has a lot of cavalry or skirmishers.
The retreat chance and the evade chance are not using the same formula but most if not all of the parameters used in one is used in the other, so don't worry: you'll want to have fast units in both case.
...

I was just reading the manual and with respect to the withdrawal (Chapter 11.9 in the english manual) I wonder whether it might make sense to have it active in many more cases. It is apparently not used in the decision whether to try to withdraw. But if this decision is made, it is used for the Withdrawal Check, to decide whether the withdrawal attempt is successful. So having it active reduces the danger of a penalized combat round due to a failed withdrawal.

arsan wrote:...
Cavalry, and specially light cavalry can easily completely evade combat. Its not easy to make them fight if they don't what to. But any stack can try to evade. But don't expect much succes if you carry guns and wagons.
For raids or intelligence gathering is a very good idea to use evade combat. ...

Careful with that - I got some of my cavalary badly mauled/completely destroyed when I intentionally (or later accidently) scouted/passed well-garisoned enemy fortresses. IIRC I had a 35% chance to evade at Thorgau in the Saxon scenario, but I guess that depends on the fortress and garrison and as you already said the composition of your own force.
Enemy cavalary also has a better chance to catch you despite "Evade" order.

Pocus wrote:...
some wording mean the same in game term, so this can be confusing. There are 6 rounds per day, but sometime a round can be called an hour or an exchange.
The first round (which is internally round 0, not round 1 if you wonder) see the opponents start from the initial distance and exchange fire until and including close distance (distance 0). Then all subsequent rounds have a range 1 phase and a range 0 phase.

This does not mean that the first round is more lethal than the others (generally this is the contrary because of delayed commitments) because in all cases, an element can't fire more than once per ROF he has, and will assault at most once. So for the same number of elements involved, each round see roughly the same number of actions.

Bottom line, the range advantage really works for the first round, where the long range units fire before the others, then it is not really relevant. This is because the battle engine only handle ONE range, abstract, for the current battle, at a given time... So you can't have a battery being 'farther' than another element really...

Could you replace chapter 11.3 (english manual) with this then?! It's saying something quite different
It's saying that the first round starts at the initial combat range, and the following rounds the distance is always reduced by 1. And once 0 it remains 0 for the following rounds.

That would mean that you never see assaults except in the longest battle then. We will see to update the manual PDF then.

WhoCares wrote:Careful with that - I got some of my cavalary badly mauled/completely destroyed when I intentionally (or later accidently) scouted/passed well-garisoned enemy fortresses. IIRC I had a 35% chance to evade at Thorgau in the Saxon scenario, but I guess that depends on the fortress and garrison and as you already said the composition of your own force.
Enemy cavalary also has a better chance to catch you despite "Evade" order.

I find it useful to put the cav under a commander with a high strat rating and set the ROE to defend/probe - the force can still be caught and wiped out of course, but this increase the chance that if caught, they will pull out of the battle after one round with (usually!) minimal casualties.

@ squarian: Nice tipp! Just be sure that the commander of the cavalry-stack is not "reckless" - which means that he will not retreat the first two hours of battle...and an hour....is a round or a phase/distance of combat? I guess it must be "round", as you can only retreat at the end/beginning of a round, right? Nevermind!

Movement penalties

Are movment-speed-penalties for
1. Under-Commandment (not enogh CP)
2. inactive leaders
3. low cohesion
cumulative?

e.g. A stack with an inactive leader (-35%), a 10% malus due to insufficient command, and -25% due to low cohesion (on average, all elements in the Stack have their cohesion at 50% of their max. cohesion) suffers a 70% speed-penalty which applies to every transition of a region-border? So, when the stack enters a region which would normally need 5 days to be entered, it would take 8,5 days instead? Or is there a cap? Or are these factors not cumulative at all?

Retreat to adjacent regions

I observed that a stack which retreats from battle is not always moved to an adjacent friendly region. Sometimes (probably in difficult terrain/weather), the beaten stack stays in the region where the battle took place, switching to passive-stance. I can see that the stack has an order to move to an adjacent region in my next turn though. So I suppose that the "retreat-move" is not an "automatic" movement, but takes time (days) as normal movement does (albeit less days than normal movement) ? So it is better to pick your fights rather early in the 15 days of a game-turn, if you plan to retreat, and if you don't want to get trapped by an enemy stack (zoc-points and evasion-values come into play)?

"Guard"-Units

What are the advantages of a unit with "guard"-ability? Is there a leader who is able to "commit the guard" in RoP (as in NCP), or is this ability just a historic detail without effects in game terms?

No special ingame ability, it's not in the 'epoch'...they are just above average elite units

Thank you for the answer - I totally agree!

Attachment Radius
In thissituation (last picture of the post), Brownes Attachment-Radius should be 2x3=6 (manual p. 26), but is seems that this is not the case in all directions. E.g. the attachment-radius reaches Dresden (5 regions), but it does not include Karlsbad (only 4 regions away). How come?

JacquesDeLalaing wrote:Thank you for the answer - I totally agree!

Attachment Radius
In thissituation (last picture of the post), Brownes Attachment-Radius should be 2x3=6 (manual p. 26), but is seems that this is not the case in all directions. E.g. the attachment-radius reaches Dresden (5 regions), but it does not include Karlsbad (only 4 regions away). How come?

The highlighted region is actually only 3 regions in all cases.
The Elbe River regions are used to extend the coverage to Dresden.

There have been several updates to these ranges since the manual was assembled.
AFAIK, latest iteration is
'attachment' range is = StrategicRating,
'action' range [bonuses] is = 50% of strategic rating

So I spotted another error in the manual!

Weird enough, I think there was no "out of command"-penalty for being out of command-radius (your action-rangeor your attachment-range?) with Rutowski, but I'll have to double-check that.

JacquesDeLalaing wrote:So I spotted another error in the manual!

Weird enough, I think there was no "out of command"-penalty for being out of command-radius (your action-rangeor your attachment-range?) with Rutowski, but I'll have to double-check that.

AFAIK, they don't get penalized, but rather they don't get any bonuses...

[Size="4"] Overview [/Size]

1. How to initiate a battle?
2. Commitment of stacks
2.1. Marching to the sound of the guns
2.2. Sallying out from a structure
2.3. Stacks with different command postures in battle
3. Commitment of elements
3.1. Combat-elements and support-elements
3.2. Frontage points
3.3. Frontage usage
3.4. Allocation of elements
4. Sequence of battle
5. Ranged combat
5.1. Who goes first?
5.2. Target-selection
5.3. Attempts to hit the enemy
5.4. Being hit
6. Close combat
6.1 Cavalry charges
7. Withdrawal and rout
7.1. Withdrawal-decision
7.2. Withdrawal-success
7.3. Withdrawal-hits
7.4. Routs
8. Aftermath
8.1. Experience
8.2. Capturing the enemy (Prisoners of War, capturing weapons and elements)
8.3. Victory points and national morale
8.4. Pillaging
8.5. Wounded and dead leaders
9. The art of battle-report-exegesis


[Size="4"]1. How to initiate a battle?[/Size]

A pitched battle is initiated when the following conditions are met:

1. There are at least two opposing stacks in the same region (subregion: region, not structure)
2. An “offensive” or “assault” command posture has been assigned to at least one of the stacks
3. The player(s) with the “offensive” or “assault”-stack(s) must have detected the enemy stack(s)

A siege-battle is initiated when the following conditions are met:

1. There are at least two opposing stacks in a region. One of the stacks is positioned in the sub-region “structure”. The other (opposing) stack(s) are positioned in the sub-region “region”.
2. An “assault” command posture has been assigned to at least one of the stacks in the sub-region “region”.
3. If the structure features a fortification-level, the structure has to be completely breached, i.e. the number of breaches must equal the fortification-level.


Depending on your settings (Options/Game/Delayed Commitment), it might take some days until a battle is commenced.
[color="red"] An army-stack cannot initiate a battle if there are other friendly troops present(?) (If that's true: Do not order a synch-movement for a strong army-stack and a weak column-stack in order to attack? The weak column-stack might initiate battle and withdraw before the army-stack moves in to support?)[/color]

[Size="4"] 2. Commitment of stacks [/Size]

[color="red"]Actually I don't understand the order in which stacks are committed to combat. This is very bad for the commitment of stacks is really a "basic" of immense importance! There are a lot of questions: Is there "one" battle field, so that all elements committed (using frontage points, see below; they may stem from different stacks?) can fight against each other? Or do elements of one stack only fight against elements of a single enemy stack (we know that units fight against units, see below)?

How are stacks with different command-postures drawn into battle? We know the rough order: assault prior to offensive prior to defensive prior to passive, and: sub-region "region" prior to sub-region "structure". But we don't know what this means. Let's say all elements of an offensive stack have been deployed and there are frontage points left? Now all defensive stacks are "activated" to fill the remaining frontage points? Which one of the defensive stacks goes first? Or are the defensive stacks committed once the offensive stacks withdraw/rout?[/color]


2.1. Marching to the sound of the guns

When a column-stack or an army-stack is engaged in battle, other column-stacks (or the army stack) which are part of the same army and which are positioned in a region adjacent to the region where the battle takes place, may enter the battle and support their fellows. Therefore, the columns or the army in the adjacent region must not be in a “passive” command posture (and it must not have an “evade fight” order) and they must pass a “march to the sound of the guns”-check. [color="red"] This check is made prior to each round of combat. A new "marching to the sound of the guns"-test is necessary prior to each round. So it can happen that a stacks supports another stack in battleround 1, but fails its test for battleround 2. (?? - actually I wonder as there are "xy supports Xy"-messages for each round of battle - so it seems that marching to the sound of a guns is checked for each round?) [/color]

All stacks eligible to march to the sound of the guns have to test individually. The base chance of joining a battle is 100%. This probability is modified by the following factors:

1. -10% for each day of marching that the supporting stack would (theoretically) need in order to enter the region where the battle takes place. All factors affecting the stack’s movement speed apply (e.g. cohesion, weather, activation status of commander, etc.). E.g. when the battle takes place in a mountainous region, the chance is reduced. Stacks moving at cavalry-speed are more likely to enter the battle (except in bad weather).
2. +10% if it is the army-stack which has been engaged by the enemy in the adjacent region.
3. +25% if it is the army-stack that marches to the sound of the guns.
4. +5% for each point of strategic-rating of the army/column-commander who tries to march to the sound of the guns.
5. -10% if the stack that tries to march to the sound of the guns is in a “defensive” command posture.
6. -1% for every 5% of enemy control in the regions. Both, the region where the battle takes place and the adjacent region are taken into account – the enemy military control in both regions is added together and then divided by 5.

When a stack succeeds its march, it participates in [color="red"]this round of battle [/color] as if it was in the region where the battle takes place, but it does not actually move there. The stack does not suffer any river-crossing penalties, but on the other hand, it doesn’t profit from any entrenchment levels either. [color="red"]When the side of the supporting stack withdraws from combat, the supporting stack does not withdraw to a random friendly region, but stays in its “starting” region?[/color]

[color="red"] When a stack fails this test, it will not participate in this round of combat (but it will try again in the next round - if there is one). [/color]

2.2. Sallying out from a structure work in progress
2.3. Stacks with different command postures in battle work in progress

[Size="4"] 3. Commitment of elements [/Size]

3.1. Combat-elements and support-elements

“Rise of Prussia” differentiates between two types of elements: combat-elements (infantry, cavalry) and support-elements (artillery, supply wagons, commanders, pioneers, sappeurs). You can always check this information in the element-panel.

3.2. Frontage points

Sources: source 1, source 2

Depending on terrain, weather, and the distribution of roles (defender/attacker), your side gets a certain amount of “frontage points” in battle. Frontage points for combat-elements are always calculated separately from frontage-points for support-elements. In order to know the exact amount of frontage points for each terrain and weather, you have to consult the modding files (check out the “terrains”-xls-file and use the tabs at the bottom; the blue lines give the frontage-points for the attacker/defender and for combat- and support-elements -[color="red"] OR ELSE: I guess that the "Combat_Units_OFFCost" says something about frontage-boni stemming from your Commander-in-Chief? [/color]).

A little example: In fair weather and in a region with “woods”, both (?) sides get 250 combat-frontage points and 150 support-frontage-points each.

Who is attacker/defender? …work in progress

[color="red]In open terrain (clear, woods), the commander-in-chief bestows additional frontage points according to his quality:

(rank of general) x (off./def.-rating of general) x 25 = additional “combat”-frontage points
(rank of general) x (off./def.-rating of general) x 10 = additional “support”-frontage points[/color]

[color="red"]In any other terrain, the bonus is reduced and additionally depends on the strategic-rating of the commander-in-chief. [/color]

The commander-in-chief is the highest ranking commander in battle. Rank is determined by the “rank” of the commander (amount of stars). If there are several commanders with the same amount of stars, their seniority comes into play (the lower the seniority-value of a leader, the higher his rank). A commander-in-chief may be positioned in the region where the battle takes place, or he may enter the region by marching to the sound of the guns. Moreover it can happen that a commander-in-chief withdraws from a battle (together with his stack), thereby handing over the command to another general. Thus, the amount of frontage-points (calculated prior to each round of battle) may change when a new commander-in-chief enters or the old one leaves the battle.

3.3. Frontage usage

Once all stacks that are going to participate in the upcoming round and the frontage-points of each side have been determined, elements are deployed on the battlefield. Each element consumes a certain amount of frontage points, in other words: it fills a certain amount of slots on the battlefield. The amount of frontage points that an element consumes depends on its movement-type, and in further consequence on the prevalent terrain and weather. The amount of frontage-points needed is equal to the amount of days that the element would theoretically need to enter the region where the battle takes place. E.g. an element of heavy foot needs 7 days to enter a region with woods [color="red"] (roads are not taken into account for this purpose)[/color]. Thus, as a defender, you could deploy up to 25 elements of heavy foot-elements (180/7=25,7) – but there is no room for any other combat-elements left in this case. Speed-Boni or mali due to under-commandment, leader-abilities, speed-coefficients etc. are not taken into account for this purpose. The only factor is the “movement-type” of an element in combination with the prevalent terrain and weather. You can check the exact values in the xls-file I’ve mentioned above (see 3.2.). The same rules apply for “support”-frontage points and support-elements.


3.4. Allocation of elements

All elements of the committed stacks constitute the “pool” of elements for the upcoming round of battle. All slots are filled with elements of that pool until either all frontage points have been consumed or there are no elements left. All elements have the same chance to be picked to fill the slots. E.g. cavalry elements are picked with the same probability as infantry elements, even though they may consume more or less frontage-points than infantry-elements. There are only three factors here:

1. Elements with a lot of hits [color="red"] (maximum hits, not actual hits?)[/color] are more likely to be committed than elements with few hits.
2. Elements that have routed during a previous battle-round have their chance to be committed reduced for the remaining rounds.
3. Elements that have already been committed in a previous round of battle are likely to be committed again in a succeeding round. (So it is not a total chaos: it is unlikely that a complete battle line is exchanged between two rounds of combat.)

As for support-units, you need to know that not more than 1 supply-wagon-element will be committed per round. Thus, even when there are lots of supply-elements in your stack, there will be enough space for your artillery. Leaders do not consume frontage-points.

[Size="4"] 4. Sequence of battle [/Size]

A battle lasts up to six rounds per day, and it may continue for several days. The first battle-round (="hour 0") on each day has an increased starting distance (see below). Rounds 2-6 always start at distance 1. Prior to each round, a side may withdraw and thus put an end to the battle. [color="red"]A rout may also happen during a round of battle.[/color]

[Size="4"] 5. Ranged combat [/Size]

5.1. Who goes first?

Now that all elements have been deployed on the battlefield, the initial distance between the two armies is determined. Bad weather and difficult terrain reduce the initial distance (for the exact values refer to the xls-file mentioned above under 3.2.). Once the initial distance is determined, it is reduced by 1 point per "phase"/distance. An element is eligible to fire when the distance reaches its range. E.g. an artillery-element will open fire at a range/distance of 4, whereas infantry opens fire at 3. Most of the time, several elements will be firing at the same distance (e.g. all infantry elements). In this case, the order of fire is determined by the initiative-values of the elements: elements with higher initiative are likely to open fire before elements with lower initiative (there is a random factor involved though!). When the initial distance is lower than the range of an element, this element will fire as soon as possible. E.g. when the initial distance is 2, an infantry-element will fire at distance 2, not at 1.

Note that it is very usefull to have elements with "skirmisher"-ability in your brigade, as they give a +1 initiative-bonus to all elements of this brigade (even when the "skirmisher"-element is not deployed on the battle field!).

5.2. Target-selection

Basically, an element may target any other enemy element on the battle field (which means that both elements have to be committed in this round). Note that the elements belonging to one unit (e.g. a brigade) always target enemy elements of one enemy unit. The selection of the enemy unit depends on the weight (total hits of the unit time their [color="red"]combat signature (maybe this refers to the distinction between combat-elements and support-elements, so that support-elements are less likely to be targeted?)[/color]) of the enemy units. This means that the elements of your unit are more likely to target the elements of a big brigade than to target a separate unit (with less hits). Let’s say there are two big enemy brigades on the battlefield (each has 25 elements for a total 250 hits per brigade) and one separate unit of 5 elements (50 hits). Each of your units (e.g. a brigade) will have a 9% chance to target the separate enemy unit, a 45% chance to target enemy brigade A, and a 45% chance to target enemy brigade B. So it can be a good idea to use separate units. But beware: When a whole brigade targets a separate unit, this unit is likely to be completely destroyed. When a brigade is targeted, the hits are likely to be spread among the elements in the brigade. Note that it can happen that a very, very unfortunate big brigade targets a unit with only 2 elements (and a total of 4 hits remaining). Is this case, most of the big brigade's fire is wasted as it can only "kill" the 4 hits remaining.

An element that has been targeted by an enemy element is likely to fire back at this element (if it has not fired already: "firing back" does not mean that it gets additional attempts!) I guess that this is not true for artillery-elements.

[color="red"]Artillery-elements always target the “biggest” (hits remaining?) enemy element on the field of battle? (unless the artillery is part of a brigade - in this case artillery targets the biggest element in the unit (e.g. a brigade) that has been targeted by the brigade which the artillery is part of)[/color]

5.3. Attempts to hit the enemy

When an element is eligible to open fire (according to range and initiative) and has picked an enemy element as its target, it has several attempts to shoot and hit the element. The number of attempts is determined by the “rate of fire”-value of the element. E.g. Prussian infantry gets three attempts, Austrian infantry only 2. An element that is shaken or which is part of an under-commanded stack has its rate of fire reduced by 1 (but never to 0!: see below).
The success-chance of an attempt is probably one of the most complicated formulae in “Rise of Prussia”.

At least we know the effects of weather and terrain: simply check the modding-file again. Right beneath the frontage-points, you can find the effects in the excel-lines 43-84; from top to bottom the values refer to: regulars, irregulars, militia, cavalry, artillery, supply, warships. Each category has 6 lines: ATKFire (ranged-combat-factor for elements on an aggressive stance), DEFFire (ranged-combatfactor for elements on defensive stance), ATKProt (Protection factor for elements on offensive stance), ATKDef (Protection factor for elements on defensive stance), [color="red"]ATKTQ & DEFTQ (maybe some close-combat factor?). [/color]

So, e.g. consider a battle in the "wilderness" on a rainy day ("mud"). You're in command of irregulars, whereas the enemys force consists entirely of cavalry. Each side has 96 frontage points at its deposal (not counting in boni from officers and the like...). However, as light foot only needs 10 days to enter wilderness/mud, you can deploy 9,6 elements on the battlefield, whereas the enemy can only deploy 4,8 elements (horse need 20 days to enter wilderness/mud). Moreover, your irregulars get a 20% fire bonus and a +2 protection bonus (and a +1 melee bonus?)! The cavalry, on the other hand is at -50% fire, -1 protection and -1 melee!

Rest: work in progress

JacquesDeLalaing wrote:I've peaced together everything I've read about combat mechanics (the best source is the forum, not the manual) and came up with this. There are still many many gaps. So most of the following explanations are hypothetical - don't ever count on them, players! And maybe, little by little, as time goes by, people (or game-developers ) will fill these gaps and clear the most important uncertainties. I know that ageod probably has different and more important things to do at this moment, immediatly after the release of a new game. So take your time, there is no hurry.

Some of that stuff is pretty interesting and will make me change some of the way I used to play the past 3 years. Nice work even if many questions remain unanswered :-) ...

On p. 33, the manual states that a unit (e.g. a brigade) moves at the speed of the most prevalent element type in that unit. According to my experimentation with cavalry and infantry, this was not true. A brigade of 2 units (10 elements) of heavy cavalry and 1 unit (5 elements) of infantry still moves at the speed of the infantry.

btw. I have two questions:
1. Do "inactive" brigade commanders in a coprs have an influence? (do they still give their +3%/def. or off. rating to their units?)
2. How quickly are elements rotated/replaced in combat? Every "distance/hour/phase" or every round of battle? This seems quite important to me when considering how important numerical superiority is.
3. Does the "skirmisher"-ability of Grenzer-elements also apply to brigades (when the Grenzers are part of the brigade) and/or to the whole stack (when the Granzers are part of the stack but not within a brigade)? In other words: Is it better to put skirmishers in brigades or to leave them as seperate units in the stack? The manual is not clear on that, it says "force/unit" (p. 77).