Taillebois
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1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:01 am

I'm not impressed by this change of policy by Matrix. Up to a few months ago all patches and betas to about 1.04 seemed available to owners of PON who bought through Gamersgate or Paradox or had boxed copies from them. Now the game won't update to 1.04.5 and Matrix are saying tough.

Here are two replies I've had:
1.
Hi David,

Thank you for contacting us. Unfortunately Paradox sold the AGEOD games on Gamersgate and other stores. They did not provide AGEOD or ourselves with the records for these, so we have no way to validate these keys, so unfortunately we cannot register the games or provide Steam keys for games bought on GamersGate or other sites. We can only support keys bought directly from AGEOD or from the Slitherine or Matrix shops. We are sorry for this.

Kind Regards,

Paulo Costa
The Slitherine Group


2. from Ian McNeil on the Matrix forum in response to a thread I started:

"We don't have any way to verify Paradox or Gamersgate serials as we were never supplied those unfortunately."

and

"We cant support some old Ageod games as we don't have the serials so no way to validate purchases. This is the case with Gamersgate and Paradox. "

-----------------------------------

I've tried on 3 separate PCs and it won't work for me - crashing and flickering. I've also over the years actually bought four version of PON - 2 in the Military Strategies II pack, one Gamersgate download; and one Steam key - which I very generously gave away thinking I would always be OK with the two DVD and one download I had.

--------------

Taillebois
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Re: 1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:20 am

This from Pocus a while ago:

"
Dear gents,

Will be posted here the latest build of PON, past official 1.04. This will be a rather heavy archive, because baring a few configurations files that are generated automatically, plus your private and personal settings file, you get almost a full setup. The missing files are there to ensure you have a legit copy of PON.

This is done this way so were are sure there is no issue coming from a missing or misplaced file, as official 1.04 is suspected to leave some files behind. "


Is this why my Gamersgate/Paradox PON won't work with 1.04.5 - it is now regarded as a non legit copy?

Was it announced that non Matrix versions would not get the update? Or is it only several people like me suddenly finding out that my installation of PON is knackered?

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loki100
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Re: 1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:04 pm

I'm not sure why this is such a problem.

I can sympathise with matrix as they inherited a complete mess from Paradox. I missed out on the discounted way to buy RUS-gold as I had the original from GG and the same issue of non-verified keys arose.

But my PoN is from GG. I updated to the latest patch with no problems, just downloaded from the forum. So agree its a pain, but I believe that neither AGEOD nor Matrix can be blamed (the fault clearly lies with Paradox), its cost me directly (for upgrading RUS) but its not an issue affecting downloading the latest patch for PoN.

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Durk
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Re: 1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:38 am

I too sympathize, but the past is past - messy and so disturbing as it was. My take, Pride of Nations is the best valuing in game pricing you will ever find. This is such a complex game with such detail you will never find in any other game. The price at AGEOD is ridiculously cheap.
No reason to complain, just buy and enjoy.

Taillebois
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Re: 1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:47 am

There is actually good grounds for complaint.

PON patches up to 1.04 would work on all versions of the game whether they were Matrix, Paradox, Gamersgate. So they can produce a patch and allow it to run on any version of PON if they want to.


1.04.5 up until a while ago would check whether your serial number was one it liked, if it didn't it would trash your game. You spend two or three hours re-installing thinking you had done something stupid. Give up, go to support get some story about compatibility or Paradox not supplying serials and they would issue you a Matrix code or Steam number for free. So you get a free fix and your damage suffered is however many hours you spent with a borked system before you went to get a support ticket.

1.04.5 now - it checks whether your serial number is one it likes, if it doesn't it trashes your game. You spend two or three hours re-installing several times thinking you had done something stupid. Give up, go to support get some story about no more Steam keys and you that must now buy a new Matrix or Steam version of the game. Pay us $20 please. $5 if you buy in our Christmas sale. At this point your choice is meekly pay up or realise you PON days are over.

Frankly software that plants code that borks a program and then demands money to work has moved into ransomware/virus territory.

The patch could say something like "Oh, you don't appear to have a Matrix version of the game, if you want to use 1.04.5 you must get one. Your existing version 1.03 of the game will still work."

To do a check, and then bork my system because my version of the game came from a rival company is nasty. Naughty Pocus. Naughty naughty.

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loki100
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Re: 1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:19 pm

I realise you are annoyed, but read my post. I have a GG version of PoN, I updated to 1.04.5 with no problems. Others have done this as well.

I sympathise but the problem is not the patch/GG interaction.

Taillebois
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Re: 1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:36 pm

This is what Slitherine support said to me:

"We can only support keys bought directly from AGEOD or from the Slitherine or Matrix shops. We are sorry for this.

Kind Regards,

Paulo Costa
The Slitherine Group"


In other words if you have a Paradox, Gamersgate or other version with a serial number we don't have on our list "Pay us $20 or $5 if you get it in the Christmas sale." That is ransom - and you only get it after your game has been borked.

I have three versions of PON on PCs where I am now - two from DVD boxes bought retail and one from my Gamersgate account - they have all worked before and they have all been borked by 1.04.5.

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loki100
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Re: 1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:57 pm

Sorry but don't agree that it can't be updated. To repeat, I use a GG bought version and updated with no problems.

Do sympathise, as above, I got caught out over RUS-RuS Gold as the former was from GG and the same problem with Paradox failing to hand over a list of keys.

Yes, Matrix are refusing to offer official support to GG versions but its still can be updated.

Have you tried a manual download from http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4316806?

If so I'd suggest patch to 1.04.03 first then add that, since that is basically what I did then it may get around whatever problem you are encountering

Taillebois
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Re: 1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:43 pm

1. Paradox didn't fail to hand over keys; they handed over all the data they had. Paradox separated from Gamersgate in about 2009.

2. Your install is persona suspecta because you are effectively part of the home team and also all the development work you have done (and kudos for that, and your AARs) I would say means that you probably don't have a simple users install.

3. I have 3 legitimate owned versions of PON - 2 from the Military Strategies UK retail pack and one from Gamersgate.
Since finding this problem, and that I am not alone in having it, I have dug out most of my old PCs and laptops from garage and storage. In each case, PON updates OK from 1.01 as far as 1.04 - but 1.04.5 buggerates it. That's about 30 installs in all - which just shows how you can waste time when you are old and on a rant :) - that's getting near a statistically significant level of testing - including XP, win 7, Win 8.1 and Win10.

4. With as little grace a possible I paid the ransom and now have 1.04.5

5. Aargh - but what about my DLC? I have 3 from Gamersgate and one from Ageod/Matrix? All of these worked with 1.04.

6. This from a post by Pocus 23 September 2016:

Dear gents,

Will be posted here the latest build of PON, past official 1.04. This will be a rather heavy archive, because baring a few configurations files that are generated automatically, plus your private and personal settings file, you get almost a full setup. The missing files are there to ensure you have a legit copy of PON."

It's the bit "The missing files are there to ensure you have a legit copy of PON."

I don't like the inference that my copies are not legitimate; and I have to crawl to support, then be told to pay $20.

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Re: 1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:47 pm

Taillebois wrote:1. Paradox didn't fail to hand over keys; they handed over all the data they had. Paradox separated from Gamersgate in about 2009.

2. Your install is persona suspecta because you are effectively part of the home team and also all the development work you have done (and kudos for that, and your AARs) I would say means that you probably don't have a simple users install.

3. I have 3 legitimate owned versions of PON - 2 from the Military Strategies UK retail pack and one from Gamersgate.
Since finding this problem, and that I am not alone in having it, I have dug out most of my old PCs and laptops from garage and storage. In each case, PON updates OK from 1.01 as far as 1.04 - but 1.04.5 buggerates it. That's about 30 installs in all - which just shows how you can waste time when you are old and on a rant :) - that's getting near a statistically significant level of testing - including XP, win 7, Win 8.1 and Win10.

4. With as little grace a possible I paid the ransom and now have 1.04.5

5. Aargh - but what about my DLC? I have 3 from Gamersgate and one from Ageod/Matrix? All of these worked with 1.04.

6. This from a post by Pocus 23 September 2016:

Dear gents,

Will be posted here the latest build of PON, past official 1.04. This will be a rather heavy archive, because baring a few configurations files that are generated automatically, plus your private and personal settings file, you get almost a full setup. The missing files are there to ensure you have a legit copy of PON."

It's the bit "The missing files are there to ensure you have a legit copy of PON."

I don't like the inference that my copies are not legitimate; and I have to crawl to support, then be told to pay $20.


I was in the same situation as you, having a Gamersgate version. I can understand your frustration but also Ageods reasons for not supporting the GG version.

What I did was to head over to the Ageod shop where I bought PON during the Christmas sale. So in the end I`m quite happy.

Taillebois
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Re: 1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:19 am

I'm beginning to think that whichever so and so at Matrix put together this blacklist/whitelist of PON serial numbers didn't ask Gamersgate for their serials because they thought the Gamersgate numbers were included in those from Paradox when in fact Gamersgate has been separate since about 2009.

Now, if I were a lawyer for Paradox, I'd be mighty miffed that my client was being slagged off in these forums when the wrongdoing is by Matrix.


I've no objection to Matrix taking a commercial decision on charging or not for a patch - it's the borking of a legal PON setup followed by a demand for money I don't like - and the two or three hours wasted.

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loki100
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Re: 1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:57 pm

Taillebois wrote:1. Paradox didn't fail to hand over keys; they handed over all the data they had. Paradox separated from Gamersgate in about 2009.

2. Your install is persona suspecta because you are effectively part of the home team and also all the development work you have done (and kudos for that, and your AARs) I would say means that you probably don't have a simple users install.

...


Neither of this is true I'm afraid.

I have exactly the same access to the .exe etc as everyone else, ie when a patch is released. Since I have learnt the hard way how to code events, yes I have some events in my own game that I've developed for my own purposes.

Most of these changes I put up on the forum so anyone can have them etc.

Paradox are to blame. Its not about their original link with GG. Basically the developer of a game gives each legal seller a batch of key numbers. That seller - Steam/GG/AGEOD/Matrix et al - use up those numbers. That gives developer and seller a clear basis for commercial transactions.

So Paradox gave GG a batch of keys for all the AGEOD games when AGEOD were part of Paradox. They know exactly how many were used as this would have been the basis for payments back from GG to Paradox. They have consistently been unable/willing to provide this list of keys to Matrix. Thus, to everyone's teeth gnashing frustration, those of us who bought AGEOD games via GG are in this limbo state.

Taillebois
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Re: 1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:15 pm

Which still doesn't address the issue of why Matrix/Ageod were happy to issue patches for PON up to 1.04 - and then suddenly ambush those who didn't have a serial number on the whitelist/blacklist. Not with a polite "sorry this upgrade patch is only for those who bought from Matrix" but more ' "we've disabled your PON setup and it won't work until you give us some money."

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Re: 1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Copies sold through Gamers-gate were not copy protected, Paradox did not want that (if I remember correctly, our own serial keys format was not the one they used in their forum). So in the end, all copies sold through Gamersgate were using the same key, that could be accessed through the configuration file, and the key was spread on some torrent sites.

Matrix has his own, additional, serial keys process. Steam is by itself a protection. That's probably the reason of the end of support after a while (a good while, up to 1.04).

I'm, at a personal level, really sorry that you Taillebois, who is known on the forum since many years, had to suffer from the situation.

As for DLC, they rely on the base game for protection, so you should be fine installing them on top of your Matrix acquired PON, even if they come from GG.

Taillebois
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Re: 1.04.5 not available for Gamersgate or Paradox PON owners

Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:23 pm

Thank you for that gracious apology Pocus.

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