Playing an unaltered 1850 scenario as Austria, in early 1850 some (maybe in the course of time all) Landwehr elements transform into regular infantry.
It is accompanied by the notification: "The soldiers of XY have been successfully trained."
Here an example:
[ATTACH]38079[/ATTACH]
Still, when both elements (regiments) within the unit (brigade) are transformed to regulars, in the panel at the bottom the unit retains its militia marker (crossed square with an M).
If they upgrade, shouldn't they upgrade to 1850 militia ? If they upgrade to regulars, shouldn't the militia symbol change to indicate regular infantry ?
And why do they upgrade at all ? I didn't initiate any military reforms, not even conscription.
Landwehr men decide to become regulars ?
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I found part of the answer myself:
Looking at the mdl file (this militia one from Mähren is 912-AUS_Inf1850_Mil2.mdl), it says
TechUpg = $mdl_AUS_Inf1850_Mil3
TrainUpg = $mdl_AUS_Inf1850_RT2
So TrainUpg is what probably happened.
AUS_Inf1850_RT2 will tech-upgrade (they haven't got a train-upgrade) to AUS_Inf1850_RT3, and so on up to AUS_Inf1915_RT8
However, this militia did not have any experience before they trained themselves, and no leader attached:
[ATTACH]38084[/ATTACH]
So why did they upgrade ?
The corresponding unit file for this militia brigade is 837-AUS_Inf_1850M_Bde.uni.
They don't have a TrainUpg, only:
TechAutoUpg = $uni_AUS_Inf_1870M_Bde
Am I correct to assume that the unit still is an 1850 Austrian Militia, but that a unit deployed in the game takes its image always the first infantry element which it contains ?
And does the TrainUpg work, so that I could amend the unit file with the line:
TrainAutoUpg = $uni_AUS_Inf_1850_Bde
?
TrainUpg can happen if the element has some experience or is trained by a leader. Once 50% or more of the unit are in the model corresponding to TrainUpg, then the unit itself switch to TrainAutoUpg.
TechUpg is only done by event. Same principle though.
Looking at the mdl file (this militia one from Mähren is 912-AUS_Inf1850_Mil2.mdl), it says
TechUpg = $mdl_AUS_Inf1850_Mil3
TrainUpg = $mdl_AUS_Inf1850_RT2
So TrainUpg is what probably happened.
AUS_Inf1850_RT2 will tech-upgrade (they haven't got a train-upgrade) to AUS_Inf1850_RT3, and so on up to AUS_Inf1915_RT8
However, this militia did not have any experience before they trained themselves, and no leader attached:
[ATTACH]38084[/ATTACH]
So why did they upgrade ?
The corresponding unit file for this militia brigade is 837-AUS_Inf_1850M_Bde.uni.
They don't have a TrainUpg, only:
TechAutoUpg = $uni_AUS_Inf_1870M_Bde
Am I correct to assume that the unit still is an 1850 Austrian Militia, but that a unit deployed in the game takes its image always the first infantry element which it contains ?
And does the TrainUpg work, so that I could amend the unit file with the line:
TrainAutoUpg = $uni_AUS_Inf_1850_Bde
?
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It is even getting a step more weird ;-)
In my scenario file, I have reduced the Landwehr regiments (elements) from the 1850 style (model 912) to the weaker 1840 style (model 911), and changed also the Landwehr Brigades (units) from 1850 style (unit 837) to 1840 style (model 836)
I left the *.mod and *.unit files in the GameData folders untouched.
Already by the third turn, both regiments in the brigade shown below had trained themselves - on their own initiative, I still don't know why - to become regular infantry (model 893, as expected through TrainUpg).
Their brigade (unit) however was trained two steps up (TechAutoUpg to a later militia brigade, as no autotrain is foreseen for them), and is now an 1870 militia brigade (unit 838, I checked it in the *ord. file), with the corresponding Austrian 1870 militia army image (the unit you see on the map, west of Graz).
Surely there is a logic behind the mechanism, but also surely the two-step-upgrade is not intended ? Or am I missing something ?
[ATTACH]38091[/ATTACH]
In my scenario file, I have reduced the Landwehr regiments (elements) from the 1850 style (model 912) to the weaker 1840 style (model 911), and changed also the Landwehr Brigades (units) from 1850 style (unit 837) to 1840 style (model 836)
I left the *.mod and *.unit files in the GameData folders untouched.
Already by the third turn, both regiments in the brigade shown below had trained themselves - on their own initiative, I still don't know why - to become regular infantry (model 893, as expected through TrainUpg).
Their brigade (unit) however was trained two steps up (TechAutoUpg to a later militia brigade, as no autotrain is foreseen for them), and is now an 1870 militia brigade (unit 838, I checked it in the *ord. file), with the corresponding Austrian 1870 militia army image (the unit you see on the map, west of Graz).
Surely there is a logic behind the mechanism, but also surely the two-step-upgrade is not intended ? Or am I missing something ?
[ATTACH]38091[/ATTACH]
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Probably related is the 1850 campaign French merchant fleet camouflage issue, which has been pointed out ages ago:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?39821-Questions-on-French-units-with-the-1-04rc5-patch&p=349828&highlight=#post349828
In the scenario file, from the beginning, unit type and model types do not match:
[ATTACH]38094[/ATTACH]
Probably - I am too fed up to test it - the unit upgrades automatically (maybe because of a check whether models and unit types correspond ?) and becomes this:
I bet this upgrading will be repeated until the unit has reached the highest level possible ?
PS. Anyway, if someone wants to play France with a correct unit type for his Cie Générale Méditerranée, just go to line 88808 of your 1850 GC.scn file, and replace the number 4827 with 4825. This number defines the unit type. However I don't know whether this will prevent the upgrading to futuristic ship unit types observed before. Maybe one day someone who knows how the program works will care to give some help.
If you use an editor which doesn't count the lines, search for the string "Sahel" and go five lines down:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?39821-Questions-on-French-units-with-the-1-04rc5-patch&p=349828&highlight=#post349828
In the scenario file, from the beginning, unit type and model types do not match:
[ATTACH]38094[/ATTACH]
Probably - I am too fed up to test it - the unit upgrades automatically (maybe because of a check whether models and unit types correspond ?) and becomes this:
I bet this upgrading will be repeated until the unit has reached the highest level possible ?
PS. Anyway, if someone wants to play France with a correct unit type for his Cie Générale Méditerranée, just go to line 88808 of your 1850 GC.scn file, and replace the number 4827 with 4825. This number defines the unit type. However I don't know whether this will prevent the upgrading to futuristic ship unit types observed before. Maybe one day someone who knows how the program works will care to give some help.
If you use an editor which doesn't count the lines, search for the string "Sahel" and go five lines down:
Sahel
{/SubUnit}
{/Unit}
{Unit}
1012500
4827 <--- replace with: 4825
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Still, I have no idea why the Austrian Landwehr (Freiwillige) upgrades, without having any experience ?
Basically, this bug or feature gives the Austrian player the advantage of a lot of line units for the price of a militia unit each.
However, if you want to prevent this militia at least from turning into elite soldiers equipped with super weapons which have not yet been invented, here what I did:
1) In the 1850 GC.scn file, I
- changed the native Austrian militia regiments (elements) from 1850 style (model 912) to the 1840 style (model 911)
- changed also the Austrian militia Brigades (units) from 1850 style (unit 837) to 1840 style (model 836)
- the same for the Austro-Hungarian militia
- and I changed the 1850 Austro-Polish militia to plain 1840 Austrian militia, as there exists no 1840 Austro-Polish militia in the game. Tough luck for the two cavalry regiments which had been originally attached. I hope Franz Joseph will be able to do without them.
2) In the Pride of Nations\VGN\GameData\Units folder, I
- selected all the *.uni files which deal with Austrian militia (Landwehr or Freiwillige). They are of the pattern: [number]-[AUS/AHU/APO/ACZ]_Inf_[year]M-[Corps/Div/Bde].uni, the identifier being the M
- added in all of them the missing TrainAutoUpg = $uni_AUS_Inf_[year]_[size of unit] line, so that the militia unit would autotrain to the same sized line unit of the same year. I added this line before the TechAutoUpg line, but I don't know whether this order is necessary.
- deleted the Units.Cached file
Example: in the 836-uni_AUS_Inf_1840M_Bde.uni file, I added the underlined line:
The result is that the militia elements still transform at random into line regiments, but these are the standard 1840 line regiments now. As soon as one element of the brigade has transformed, the brigade still remains a Landwehr brigade, but in the units panel the image changes (white coats, whereas on the map still the dark coat is shown). As soon as both elements of the brigade have transformed, the brigade transforms into an 1840 line brigade: The M in the unit type identfier is gone, and it shows white coats on the map as well.
PS. I have colected the changed *.uni files in this zip file for those who want to use them: [ATTACH]38104[/ATTACH]
As illustration, see here in the lower left corner the 8. Landwehr-Brigade (15. and 16. Landwehr-Regiment), completely transformed into a line brigade with two regular line regiments. All that is left is to rename them in the *.ord save file:
[ATTACH]38103[/ATTACH]
Basically, this bug or feature gives the Austrian player the advantage of a lot of line units for the price of a militia unit each.
However, if you want to prevent this militia at least from turning into elite soldiers equipped with super weapons which have not yet been invented, here what I did:
1) In the 1850 GC.scn file, I
- changed the native Austrian militia regiments (elements) from 1850 style (model 912) to the 1840 style (model 911)
- changed also the Austrian militia Brigades (units) from 1850 style (unit 837) to 1840 style (model 836)
- the same for the Austro-Hungarian militia
- and I changed the 1850 Austro-Polish militia to plain 1840 Austrian militia, as there exists no 1840 Austro-Polish militia in the game. Tough luck for the two cavalry regiments which had been originally attached. I hope Franz Joseph will be able to do without them.
2) In the Pride of Nations\VGN\GameData\Units folder, I
- selected all the *.uni files which deal with Austrian militia (Landwehr or Freiwillige). They are of the pattern: [number]-[AUS/AHU/APO/ACZ]_Inf_[year]M-[Corps/Div/Bde].uni, the identifier being the M
- added in all of them the missing TrainAutoUpg = $uni_AUS_Inf_[year]_[size of unit] line, so that the militia unit would autotrain to the same sized line unit of the same year. I added this line before the TechAutoUpg line, but I don't know whether this order is necessary.
- deleted the Units.Cached file
Example: in the 836-uni_AUS_Inf_1840M_Bde.uni file, I added the underlined line:
UID = 836
Alias = uni_AUS_Inf_1840M_Bde
NationTag = AUS
Name = Militia Brigade
ShortName = Militia Brigade
Text = $uni_txt_CMN_Militia_Bde
Color = $colAUSMain
SymbolID = symbol_BrigMil
ModelType0 = $mdl_AUS_Inf1840_Mil1|2
TrainAutoUpg = $uni_AUS_Inf_1840_Bde
TechAutoUpg = $uni_AUS_Inf_1850M_Bde
FamilyType0 = $famLeader|1
FamilyType1 = $famMilitia|2
CmdCost = 2
Pillage = 0
BuildRule = $recCity
BuildWeight = 3
Area = $Theater_Austria
CustomNames = 1. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|35. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|36. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|40. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|93. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|95. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|97. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|100. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|101. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|102. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|103. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|104. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|105. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|106. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|107. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|108. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|109. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|110. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|111. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|112. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|122. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|123. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|124. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|125. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|126. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|161. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|162. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|187. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|202. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|205. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|206. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|209. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|210. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|211. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|212. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|220. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|221. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|222. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|223. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|224. Landsturm-Inft.-Brig.|
The result is that the militia elements still transform at random into line regiments, but these are the standard 1840 line regiments now. As soon as one element of the brigade has transformed, the brigade still remains a Landwehr brigade, but in the units panel the image changes (white coats, whereas on the map still the dark coat is shown). As soon as both elements of the brigade have transformed, the brigade transforms into an 1840 line brigade: The M in the unit type identfier is gone, and it shows white coats on the map as well.
PS. I have colected the changed *.uni files in this zip file for those who want to use them: [ATTACH]38104[/ATTACH]
As illustration, see here in the lower left corner the 8. Landwehr-Brigade (15. and 16. Landwehr-Regiment), completely transformed into a line brigade with two regular line regiments. All that is left is to rename them in the *.ord save file:
[ATTACH]38103[/ATTACH]
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- Units.zip
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loki100
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Siegfroh wrote:...
I bet this upgrading will be repeated until the unit has reached the highest level possible ?
sail/wood ships can't upgrade to steam/steel so there is a cap
more generally can I suggest you try and summarise this lot and put it into the help improve PoN section. There is work on a patch but its not going to be picked up if the developers have to read through multiple posts
AJE The Hero, The Traitor and The Barbarian
PoN Manufacturing Italy; A clear bright sun
RoP The Mightiest Empires Fall
WIA Burning down the Houses; Wars in America; The Tea Wars
PoN Manufacturing Italy; A clear bright sun
RoP The Mightiest Empires Fall
WIA Burning down the Houses; Wars in America; The Tea Wars
loki100 wrote:sail/wood ships can't upgrade to steam/steel so there is a cap
Yes, but there is no cap for the militia units.
I had a glance at the German militia: same issue as with the Austrian one, German militia elements can auto-train (I don't know whether they do it without experience from the start, as do the Austrians), but the corresponding militia units don't have the TrainAutoUgpg entry. At least this is true for the one mdl and one uni file which I checked. Maybe this is the same with other nations as well ? I don't care anymore.
Meeting a bug and finding a workaround makes fun sometimes (even when there is no answer to my questions by the knowledgable), but eventually I would like to play a game and not spend my time repairing it. Especially not when I don't know which other bugs and issues are to expected, and whether others have already found some workarounds which would save me some time. I proposed before to put together such an overview, but I am not the volunteer to undertake this useful work:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?39825-Complete-list-of-bugs-and-issues-and-roadmap
Like last year, I will leave the game for good now and maybe give it another try in a few months, when another patch is out.
The reason for the upgrading of the militia units was that they started with an experience of 3 stars (which wasn't shown up to a recent patch).
The rule is that TrainUpg occurs with a probability of 2% per experience level.
If somone thinks this probability is too high, now is the occasion to say it.
The rule is that TrainUpg occurs with a probability of 2% per experience level.
If somone thinks this probability is too high, now is the occasion to say it.
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