Chicken Spadge
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Belgium 1855 - Worth Continuing?

Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:35 am

I've now reached 1855 in my first PON game, which has mainly been aimed at learning how to play.

The point I'm at now seems to be a bit of a dead end, however, because my options as Belgium are so limited.

I've managed to get the economy in pretty good shape, and only some minor tinkering with this is necessary from time to time. I've also made sure that Belgium is well defended with strong forts and garrisons to discourage attack. At the same time, I've boosted relations with Great Britain and France to around plus 40, although I'm reluctant to go for any military treaty for fear of being dragged into some disastrous war. Meanwhile, despite the cordial relations, the two countries always seem to refuse anything except state visits and commerical agreements because Belgium's government form is "weak" and "lacks reforms", even though I've passed just about every reform possible.

Meanwhile here's the situation in Africa:

Image

I was told on another thread that events relating to Belgian Congo will fire only as of 1870-1880, so I've tried to concentrate on an area that is perhaps slightly to the north (although I must admit that I'm not sure exactly which provinces the traditional Belgian Congo covers).

Meanwhile, the Portuguese are now encroaching fast onto territory where I had CP up to 35 percent. They've already declared a protectorate over the most southerly province shown, with my CP now falling there. And they are now moving north.

There doesn't seem to be anything that I can do about this. I can't declare war on Portugal because despite building up a large naval base in Antwerp I don't have the option of building any warships. Meanwhile, the main tribal area shown (I can't remember its name) refuses to allow any military forces in, and I can only carry out expeditions there. I don't have the cards to form a protectorate or move on to any further stage.

Has anyone played right through as Belgium. Is it really worth me continuing with this particular game? or should I call it a day and start with a country that has more options?

I'm certainly aware of the fact that I'm probably not doing things properly.

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loki100
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Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:29 pm

In many ways I doubt it is. Probably the best you could aim for would be a very high industrial score as you simply lack the manpower (and geographical position) to really challenge one of the big powers. When I was first thinking of just doing a test game to get my head around the economy, I was tempted to Belgium. But it seemed an odd mix of too easy (relatively you do have a powerful economy) and a bit limited as to options. At least with Italy, even if Austria was too big to handle you could think about contesting the eastern med against the Ottomans.

I think Portugal gains those colonies by event.

having said that, even just at the level of turn processing it would be great to see a report on what happens with Italy and the dynamics of the American Civil War (both should kick in by the late 1850s)
AJE The Hero, The Traitor and The Barbarian
PoN Manufacturing Italy; A clear bright sun
RoP The Mightiest Empires Fall
WIA Burning down the Houses; Wars in America; The Tea Wars

Erostratus
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:02 am

I would ask what your intentions or goals were? Were you trying to settle historically ahead of time? This game unlike the vickis or newer versions of europa would allow things like that. However if you ever played Europa one or two, they were highly scripted. If you were spain, you always had events firing that would give you austria, the lowlands, mexico, peru, and such. This game I would say is more like that. If you wanted to take advantage as belgium with its actions in the congo, I would tell you to get the DLC that give you the scramble of africa. Loki is right about the manpower, you would have to have a stronger ally getting you into wars you could take advantage of, maybe. If you wanted to continue I would be more passive and build up your wealth more-so than inventories. If I were in your shoes I could go either way but you are stuck not being able to to add much to regions adjacent to your nation.

Chicken Spadge
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:38 pm

Thanks for the replies.

I have played EU2 (and For the Glory) and EU4, but not EU3, and I certainly don't like the complete sandbox games. I took an instant dislike to EU3 because it seemed to be a free for all, and I notice that Paradox has stepped back from that somewhat with EU4 (not much, but at least somewhat). I certainly didn't go into this game expecting to be able to paint the world brown, or even Africa brown. I think what bothers me most is to spend a considerable amount of time exploring an area and building up a presence there only to see another country (Portugal) waltz in and start pushing me out without having any means to counter this. Belgium doesn't start with any warships, and I'm not able to build any, so I'm completely unable to do anything against Portugal, which appears to be moving north beyond the historical borders of Angola.

I have got the Scramble for Africa DLC, so maybe I should have a go at Belgium in that like you suggested. I suppose that there's a good reason why the game designers originally limited the playable countries to eight. Like I said, the main aim was to learn how to play, so I'm not calling this Belgium game a complete waste of time. I have at least learnt the basics.

Erostratus
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:59 pm

Well what you should know is that Portugal originally "owned" the coast that is the congo, and that goes back to the 1500s I think. And owned is not a correct term because things were so small in scope. As Loki said you should get those areas back later on, and thats exactly how it happened. If you really were disposed to learn about how it all happened, a good book is called "king leopold's ghost". A fantastic read, and a horrible story of how one man's obsession with what the larger countries did before him and his attempt to replicate what they did using the country of belgium.

Chicken Spadge
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:30 pm

How does this 'getting by event' work? Do you actually get a full colony in one fell swoop, or just the building blocks you need in order to build a colony in a certain area? And would Portugal simply be booted out?

Erostratus
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:01 pm

I am like you and many years away from 1870, so I have no input on that, maybe some one who has been can respond. But belgium had no interest in the congo until the likes of leopold the 2nd came around, thats for sure.

Chicken Spadge
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:27 pm

The thing is that just being handed the Congo on a plate seems far worse to me that the difficulties that I've been experiencing. I don't mind it if a game nudges you in a certain direction, but there's a limit.

Are you playing Belgium as well? If so, how are things going for you?

bwiser
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:39 pm

But that's how history sometimes works. Such decisions are being and had been made on the green table. Also, think about it - that will be as far as I know the only goody for Belgium during the whole game.

Regarding conferences: I guess, it would have been very cool, if the Philippes would have included a "Conference" minigame like the crisis module, but on the other side that would have been even more features to an already largely complex game; maybe an idea for PON 2 - as conferences played an important role in this time frame and maybe it could be implemented using the crisis module ....

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Field Marshal Hotzendorf
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Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:06 pm

bwiser wrote:But that's how history sometimes works. Such decisions are being and had been made on the green table. Also, think about it - that will be as far as I know the only goody for Belgium during the whole game.

Regarding conferences: I guess, it would have been very cool, if the Philippes would have included a "Conference" minigame like the crisis module, but on the other side that would have been even more features to an already largely complex game; maybe an idea for PON 2 - as conferences played an important role in this time frame and maybe it could be implemented using the crisis module ....


A conference feature would be awesome in this type of game. Good idea!

Erostratus
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Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:24 pm

Chicken Spadge wrote:The thing is that just being handed the Congo on a plate seems far worse to me that the difficulties that I've been experiencing. I don't mind it if a game nudges you in a certain direction, but there's a limit.

Are you playing Belgium as well? If so, how are things going for you?


No I am doing my first GC as Italy, though I have done others, this is my first attempt to more than just get a handle on some concepts. But I am like you in that I have not gotten to play a long enough game to get into the scripts that fire that steer the game into a historical concept. I watched loki's economic videos, and I think I finally understand the relationship between state funds money and converting one into the other. The real problem with playing a small country though is even with just focusing on products that you sell to your domestic market to tax for state funds, there is an economy of scale going on which means that as a small country there is only so much you can do in terms of producing capital, and lets not forget about manpower.

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loki100
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Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:35 pm

Field Marshal Hotzendorf wrote:A conference feature would be awesome in this type of game. Good idea!


Yep, that would have been the ultimate iteration of the already excellent crisis system
AJE The Hero, The Traitor and The Barbarian
PoN Manufacturing Italy; A clear bright sun
RoP The Mightiest Empires Fall
WIA Burning down the Houses; Wars in America; The Tea Wars

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