vaalen
AGEod Guard of Honor
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Finally! How to control the militant French.

Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:50 pm

In my current game as France, the biggest problem has been keeping my large, well educated, very militant population happy.

I have found that the French are the hardest population to control, much more so than the British, Prussians, and Russians, who I also have much experience with. This is historical, as France changed government through revolutions several times during this period.

Though most of the game, I have met the consumer demand for food, in great variety, and consumer goods 100 percent, and have provided two thirds, sometimes more of the demand for luxuries. I have also enacted every possible social reform as soon as it is available.
Whenever there were signs of trouble, I rushed troops to the province with high police values, such as cavalry divisions and Gendarmes.

Nevertheless, militancy kept rising, and trouble developed in Meuse, where the contentment level somehow fell to one. For over four years Meuse has been mostly beset by strikes and riots, making it a negative, with no production and goods destroyed by riots. About two years, later, the same thing happened in Champagne. Nothing really helped.

Then a year before my current turn, strikes and riots appeared in two other provinces, where the contentment level was in the forties,but militancy was in the nineties. I realized I had to find something different, or I would lose the services of so many provinces that the nation might collapse.

I carefully examined the high militancy provinces where there were no riots or strikes, and found that each of these provinces had a garrison, in a fort, in the city.
In horror, I looked at the troops I sent to the troubled provinces, and they were all in the countryside. So enlightenment hit... Put them in the city itself!

After the first turn of doing this, contentment started to rise in the two newly troubled provinces, and rose into the eighties within a few turns. The riots and strikes lasted a few turns, then disappeared.

Alas, Meuse and Champagne were too far gone, and while contentment has risen from one to five or six, the riots and strikes have continued, mostly, though both provinces had a few turns of demonstrations, which are far less serious. Maybe they will get better in a few years, maybe not.

But now, in addition to everything else I was doing, I monitor the contentment level of my provinces. If it drops below seventy, I send in the gendarmes or cavalry, placing them right into the city. Within a turn or two, contentment is rising, and the danger of having more provinces ruined is gone.

I can hardly believe I made the mistake of putting the troops in the countryside, instead of the city, but I did. Now I know better.

Fascinating game!

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TXcavalier
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Location: San Marcos, Texas

Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:45 am

What! I have had an almost identical experience to what you wrote about. I'll try placing units in cities and see if that helps. :thumbsup:

vaalen
AGEod Guard of Honor
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Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:32 am

It should work for you as well. i certainly hope so!

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James D Burns
Posts: 561
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Location: Salida, CA

Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:20 am

Hmm I've been trying to get at least a cavalry division or infantry corp into each province, but have kept them outside the cities. I'll drop them in and see if it makes a difference, thanks for the tip.

Jim

vaalen
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1227
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:48 pm

Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:18 am

James D Burns wrote:Hmm I've been trying to get at least a cavalry division or infantry corp into each province, but have kept them outside the cities. I'll drop them in and see if it makes a difference, thanks for the tip.

Jim


My pleasure. It might take a few turns, but it did make a huge difference to me. And it is still working, after over twenty turns.

Darthkommandant
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Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:28 pm

I noticed this as well in my Prussia/Germany Game. For any effect troops have to enter the city to work and Light cav or Feldgenargmerie work best.

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Pocus
Posts: 25433
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:37 am
Location: Lyon (France)

Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:25 pm

Are you sure, I see nothing in the code regarding that and that would be indeed rather opaque to players, a needless micro management thing. Instead I see that, as usual, troops in passive posture don't provide police values, which is normal, as for the game troops in passive interact the less possible with their surrounding. Being in a structure considers passive as defensive though, so perhaps this is instead tied to that. You put your troops in passive, but as sometime you put then in cities, they are still considered in defensive.

Try leaving them outside, not in passive, see if it works, it should.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

vaalen
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1227
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:48 pm

Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:52 pm

Pocus wrote:Are you sure, I see nothing in the code regarding that and that would be indeed rather opaque to players, a needless micro management thing. Instead I see that, as usual, troops in passive posture don't provide police values, which is normal, as for the game troops in passive interact the less possible with their surrounding. Being in a structure considers passive as defensive though, so perhaps this is instead tied to that. You put your troops in passive, but as sometime you put then in cities, they are still considered in defensive.

Try leaving them outside, not in passive, see if it works, it should.


Pocus, this may actually be a bug, or an undocumented feature, but I am as certain as I can be. I have been trying to control riots and strikes for over one hundred and fifty turns, and I have paid careful attention to this for all that time.

I also never put troops in passive posture when I sent them to control riots. Usually I put them in offensive, sometimes in defensive. No matter what I did , or how many troops I sent, there was no noticeable effect on the strikes, riots, or contentment level until I put the troops right into the city.

I tried putting the same troops in the countryside for over one hundred turns, in offensive or defensive posture, with no noticeable effect. Yet, when I put them in the city in two provinces that had recently gone on strike, contentment levels rose substantially the very next turn, and , in a few turns, the riots and strikes were gone.

The two provinces where contentment was down to one, or zero, are now at five or six, but both went from riots or strikes, or both, to demonstrations, and are now producing things again. Before I put troops in the cities, one of the provinces has massive riots and a contentment level of zero or one for over a hundred turns, and the second province had this for over fifty turns.

I have very high militancy in many provinces, despite providing all of the demand for food, in great variety, and consumer goods, and most of the luxuries., for over two hundred turns. I also enact every single social and political reform as soon as it is available, and have done this form the very early game, when I finally got the money to do this. What I noticed is that if the contentment level went down below fifty, riots and strikes began to appear. Now I monitor contentment levels every few turns. With the population display working again, this is easy to do. If any province slips towards sixty, the troops go into the city and the contentment levels begin to rise, often holding steady in the late seventies or early eighties. No new riots or strikes. This has worked for over thirty turns.

At least one other player has confirmed that he noticed no effect from placing troops in the province, but putting them in the city worked.

Yes, I am certain.

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Pocus
Posts: 25433
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Location: Lyon (France)

Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:00 pm

Mmmh, this is the kind of bug I can easily check if I have a saved game, so that in the end troops outside the city work as expected... So give me a proof and I'll fix it.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

vaalen
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1227
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:48 pm

Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:47 pm

Pocus wrote:Mmmh, this is the kind of bug I can easily check if I have a saved game, so that in the end troops outside the city work as expected... So give me a proof and I'll fix it.


I will send you a save, but I will need the help of my son to send it to you. It might take a couple of days. I am not kidding when I bemoan my lack of computer skills.

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