Upgrading Troops

[basilhare]

This is probably a "Captain Obvious" Question...I just researched "Muzzle Loading Rifles"....I noticed that the next turn, most or all my elements were noted as being "trained" and some of the uniforms changed...also noticed a substantial increase in combat strength for most of the stacks...so, this must mean that these elements automatically upgraded to the new technology, correct? Ie., there is no "manual" way to upgrade...it's automatic as you discover new technology??? Once new technology is discovered, will the wooden battleships automatically upgrade as well?

[loki100]

for land units you can't really control the process but units in a passive stance on a barracks will upgrade first, so that might help if you really need some units to turn around as fast as you can (say you are in a war). The constraint is having the replacement chits so once you have one of the major infantry techs (the different rifle types) keep an eye on your F3 screen (I think its F3, where the replacement chits are) to ensure you have sufficient. If I recall units out of supply can't upgrade, but this is probably not a sensible strategy.

for ships, again the quickest will be passive and in a port. The first 3 generations of wooden ships upgrade, after that you need to scrap and rebuild with new. I believe this reflects that the process of upgrading wooden warships in the 1850-70 era was one of adding bits (mostly sections of steel plate) over the existing hull.

Remember there is another quirk with ship upgrades. Say you have a squadron of BB3 (I think that is the end of the line for wooden ships), as such they can't upgrade. If you lose one to three in battle (so at least one element remains), then the lost elements will replace over time (passive/port/need chits) but as the current modern design, so you can end up with a mixed squadron of sail and coal. Depending this is either a neat trick to retain the original counter or a pain in the backside. I tend to the latter as of course the wooden ship affects speed and so on.

[basilhare]

...The constraint is having the replacement chits so once you have one of the major infantry techs (the different rifle types) keep an eye on your F3 screen (I think its F3, where the replacement chits are) to ensure you have sufficient.

Okay, regarding replacement chits...is it intended that once you hit one of these major upgrade points, that you will have to basically rebuild your entire army??? I researched the new muzzle loading rifles...now, every turn for the past 8 turns or so, Im getting a message that 20-30 more units have been "trained" but am taking 500 infantry hits....I do not have enough conscript companies to meet the incredible manpower demand...not sure what is being represented...each brand new rifle comes with a brand new soldier to go with it??? Ouch!

Thanks.

[loki100]

Okay, regarding replacement chits...is it intended that once you hit one of these major upgrade points, that you will have to basically rebuild your entire army??? I researched the new muzzle loading rifles...now, every turn for the past 8 turns or so, Im getting a message that 20-30 more units have been "trained" but am taking 500 infantry hits....I do not have enough conscript companies to meet the incredible manpower demand...not sure what is being represented...each brand new rifle comes with a brand new soldier to go with it??? Ouch!

Thanks.

it gets easier later on, as your economy and manpower improve then these hits are easier to absorb.

I think it is a way of simulating that this is not just a shiny new rifle but brings a need to retrain the entire army. So this is reflected in slightly odd ways, such as the demand for new conscripts and so on but I think it captures that these shifts are pretty fundamental in the evolution of your army.

To help you have two choices. Disband some stuff, especially if you have lots of garrison units or divisions/corps that have had no battle experience. The other is to keep some units in an attack stance and out of a province with a barracks. They will upgrade last and it may take some time for them to upgrade at all.

[basilhare]

Thanks...looks like after about 10 turns the worst is over...you are probably right in your assessment...5-6 months of training and reorganization is probably not unrealistic...thanks.

[joe]

I started a new campaign game and am up to 1852. GBR has the technology for screw driven battleships. I was hoping some of the wooden battleships would have begun to upgrade by now. I have them in passive mode,in ports,with replacement chits available. Is there anything else I should do? Thanks

f

for ships, again the quickest will be passive and in a port. The first 3 generations of wooden ships upgrade, after that you need to scrap and rebuild with new. I believe this reflects that the process of upgrading wooden warships in the 1850-70 era was one of adding bits (mostly sections of steel plate) over the existing hull.

Remember there is another quirk with ship upgrades. Say you have a squadron of BB3 (I think that is the end of the line for wooden ships), as such they can't upgrade. If you lose one to three in battle (so at least one element remains), then the lost elements will replace over time (passive/port/need chits) but as the current modern design, so you can end up with a mixed squadron of sail and coal. Depending this is either a neat trick to retain the original counter or a pain in the backside. I tend to the latter as of course the wooden ship affects speed and so on.

[czert2]

all upgrades are handled automaticaly, for infantry is is easiest for ships is is harder. since not every ship can be ugraded and im not sure if you can upgade pure sail ship to any steam propeled version, after all it was way more radical constuction upgade than just boldting some steel to wooden hull.
and best chance for upgrade is to be un shipyard (upgraded port) - and bigger size is allways better.
and i think that bupgading cost 1/3 of unit, and i think it is ok size, since many think of units as just man-soldier which need replacement in combat, which is bad asumption since soldier consist of man + weapon, tools to mainain it,uniform and many other things which need to be manufatured.
and when you upgrading unit you need to manufature all these things completly new.
and to prevent suden hit when upgrading i use simple strategy
if posible have half of max of replacement chits or more
have small army as posible
and to counter it to build railroad everywhere is posible. (for russia building rr simply cut your starting army to half and still you have more units than you need, even if you go to crimean war against all or many other wars/insurections).

[joe]

Thanks czert2 for the reply. I am now at March 1855 with no upgrades. I have one wooden battleship division (4 ships) in the London shipyard in passive mode. I have max. amount of replacement chits in heavy warship replacements. I have more than enough upgrading cost. It could be there is no auto upgrade from wood to steam although in the Events RI Naval folder it looks like there is but I don't know if I am reading it correctly. Thanks again.

all upgrades are handled automaticaly, for infantry is is easiest for ships is is harder. since not every ship can be ugraded and im not sure if you can upgade pure sail ship to any steam propeled version, after all it was way more radical constuction upgade than just boldting some steel to wooden hull.
and best chance for upgrade is to be un shipyard (upgraded port) - and bigger size is allways better.
and i think that bupgading cost 1/3 of unit, and i think it is ok size, since many think of units as just man-soldier which need replacement in combat, which is bad asumption since soldier consist of man + weapon, tools to mainain it,uniform and many other things which need to be manufatured.
and when you upgrading unit you need to manufature all these things completly new.
and to prevent suden hit when upgrading i use simple strategy
if posible have half of max of replacement chits or more
have small army as posible
and to counter it to build railroad everywhere is posible. (for russia building rr simply cut your starting army to half and still you have more units than you need, even if you go to crimean war against all or many other wars/insurections).

[loki100]

the first three generations of ships should upgrade as you are basically adding armour and some non-sail power to essentially wooden sail based ships. Once you get beyond that each advance in naval technology means your old ships become obsolete. So you are constantly facing the unpleasant choice of scrapping relatively new ships - I think this and the prestige cost is relatively realistic as it creates a nice dilemna. You can usually leave your 'new' older ships off in the colonies or in secondary fleets but at some stage you need to scrap to free up naval slots.

I found the wooden ships did upgrade but it took time ... sounds like you are doing everything right.

[joe]

Good to know. Thank you.

I found the wooden ships did upgrade but it took time ... sounds like you are doing everything right.[/QUOTE]

[czert2]

well , there is allways some "cheat" to get relative easy upgrade - go to ombat and lose some ships (but not whole unit) and then go to port for replenisment...whola you get latest tech ships here.

[aircobra]

I have a question to this issue:
Do the Japanese samurai and feudal warriors also upgrade? I've been able to build new infantry units with modern rifles for a few years now and nothing seemed to change with the outdated units.

[PhilThib]

Do the Japanese samurai and feudal warriors also upgrade? I've been able to build new infantry units with modern rifles for a few years now and nothing seemed to change with the outdated units.

None of them upgrade, they must all be disbanded. You can then regain some of the assets which you can re-use for rebuilding new units.

[aircobra]

Thank You for your quick answer!