Supply and demand, prices, taxes

[Flop]

I've finally re-installed this game to give it another try, and I'm currently playing a GC as Prussia. I'm currently at the end of 1952, and for the past year and a half or so, I've had problems exporting my products. Specifically, coal, manufactured goods, steel, chemicals and dyes are not being requested at anywhere near the level of world production of those products. In fact, the only products that the world really seems interested in is luxury products (all kinds), wine and tobacco. I've had to shut down a bunch of my factories, since otherwise my stockpiles will start spoiling. My private capital is still doing alright, but I'm wondering if this situation will ever change, and why no one wants to buy these products. Does anyone know?

The other question I have is about the prices of goods on you home market. When your private sector sells goods to your population, does it do so at current world prices, at the standard price, or something else?

Also, I'm interested in knowing if current taxes, excise taxes and tariffs affect your PC income. I'm guessing they don't, because prices would most likely just be raised to compensate, meaning that the consumers would pay, but I'm not sure. Does anyone know?

Thanks in advance.

[loki100]

Hi

to answer your first point - yes it will. It will take a little bit of time but you need other countries to discover both the techs that increase the rate of population growth and the demand/population unit. So at the start, there is a degree of over-production but it soon sorts itself out.

Sales to the domestic market are at the same rate as international prices (so vary a little around a core rate)

Be careful with some taxes, they can have unintended effects. Those that have a hit on contentment may lead to domestic problems and thus lower population demand. Low transport duties are good as it means other states trade using your ships (so you get more PC). High tariffs can have an adverse hit on your international relations.

[Flop]

Thanks for the answers! I have an abundance of state funds, since I gave up on getting the biggest army in Europe (military expansion was hurting my foreign relations), so I have no problems with lowering taxes. I think I'll lower the maritime tax to 0, since that's negligible anyway. The other taxes are already quite low, so I think I'll just keep them where they are.

[Jim-NC]

The taxes appear to affect the amount of private capital you get each turn. If you look at the F4 screen, then change the tax rates, you will see the PC balance change (on paper), as well as the state funds. I have not verified that the apparent change is an actual change.

[Q-Kee]

I am now in 1862 (as AUS) and the goods you quoted are still not in demand on the international market, but ppl post here all the time that in the future especially coal will become very scarce, so I just stockpile what I can - I read in the manual too that stocks decay, but I have not yet seen proof for it up to 1000 stock - only thing I have seen yet is conserved foods be wasted when above 1000 (like 30 per turn due to "waste and corruption"), it says so in the F4 consumption report. I have also determined that even though the manual says products set up for trade vanish even if not sold, it does not seem to be the case so you can put them up for sale anyways.

I would extend coal production as far as possible because the point at which your own consumption exceeds own production will be much sooner that the scarcity on the international market. I think it was in 1855 for me, as I have built most of the available factories by then and covered everything with railways. However, coal is also a good thing to buy on the market to improve foreign relations, nearly everybody is offering it atm and you need to buy (and can obtain) bigger quntities.

Taxes, maritime taxes seem not to have an effect at all, neither do they generate much income nor do 0 taxes seem to make my merchant fleets attractive to foreign traders, at least I have no proof of it. Sometimes a report says that a certain amoutn of goods has been transported overseas, but the income is only 10 or so, also I suspect that the report means own supplies transported to colonies rather than trade (I have turned off SOI and use Kensai's script to give AUS colonies).

I have 40% taxes on luxury goods which really generate state income (those were the first factories I built and I try to buy every luxury item I can get my hands on) and since I have reached good relations with all those I that are important to me I have set 36% tariffs, this generates a bit of state income and increases the price you get for goods sold on your domestic market. Both lower contentment a bit but I can live with that, it is stable as for each decrease in contentment I can increase enough over 2-3 turns by sales on the domestic market (0.45-0.65).

[epaminondas]

I have my doubts that there is actually any direct relationship between tax levels and contentment. Across 25 years I've set my Consumption Tax level at 1%, 2%, and 3% without detecting any difference in the frequency with which I receive "high tax" messages or the contentment losses that I suffer.

[loki100]

I have my doubts that there is actually any direct relationship between tax levels and contentment. Across 25 years I've set my Consumption Tax level at 1%, 2%, and 3% without detecting any difference in the frequency with which I receive "high tax" messages or the contentment losses that I suffer.

its more the reverse, low tax rates mean you still get the 100---99 contentment drops, but high tax rates will drive down contentment quicker. Its a bit like using MP units to deal with dissent, it takes a while to see the consequences but it does happen.

I'd agree with Q-Kee, if you can, organise your taxes around luxuries and tariffs, that seems on balance to have the least negative impacts. By late game, unfortunately, you can end with near zero taxes and still be awash in state funds

[Q-Kee]

I think the tariffs have most impact on contentment, but nothing one cannot deal with. Either I've read it on the forum or in the manual, it's supposed to be because of the higher prices on goods on the domestic market due to higher traiffs. I have the (unproved) feeling that I get the contentment drop reports slightly more often since I have raised traiffs, all other taxes unchanged.

[Jim-NC]

I find that it is the number of regions that lose 1% that changes with tax rates. Low tax rates means that only a few regions become less content. Higher taxes means that more regions become less content. The game checks contentment at the same frequency regardless of tax level, so you will see the messages every couple of months, no matter what the tax rate.

[epaminondas]

By late game, unfortunately, you can end with near zero taxes and still be awash in state funds

Yes, I'm at the point where 1% Consumption Tax and 9% on Tariffs and Execise are pulling in more than I can spend. The accumulated reserve did come in handy when the Vienna Stock Market Crash dropped a 20% dissent hit on me however.

I'll certainly look more carefully, Jim, but I've not been noticing a change in the number of regions losing contentment. The average contentment loss has continued throughout at from 1% to 2% a quarter with the occasional zero loss, so if I'm losing more on the roundabouts it looks like I'm picking it up on the swings somewhere. Instead of just breezing through this I'll start taking notes and get back when I have a decent database.

[Tuoweit]

I have my doubts that there is actually any direct relationship between tax levels and contentment. Across 25 years I've set my Consumption Tax level at 1%, 2%, and 3% without detecting any difference in the frequency with which I receive "high tax" messages or the contentment losses that I suffer.

In my limited experience the "high tax" messages are exclusively from the quarterly census taxes - but then I try to keep my transactional taxes fairly low, except for Excise which I leave at the default.

[Kensai]

I think we need to improve this aspect by writing recurring events that sap heavily accumulated balances on every possible resource. Current script commands allow for that relatively easily. More important is to find the ideal recipe.

[Tuoweit]

I think we need to improve this aspect by writing recurring events that sap heavily accumulated balances on every possible resource. Current script commands allow for that relatively easily. More important is to find the ideal recipe.

Doesn't this already happen through "corruption and wastage" effects? Although the soft limit on the size of the stockpile before this kicks in seems to go up significantly over time.

[Jim-NC]

To my knowledge, there is no wastage for state funds. In the later game, the PC businessmen wastage isn't enough to offset the amount you get from other sources.