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patch ideas

Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:27 pm

request for soon patches ( mostly france)

first Im worried about the fact that you guys keep making economical system harder. I know its more realistic by I still prefer something simple in that category. no need to change but just dont make it worse

second, war points are impossibly hard to get, I am only asking a reasonable change.
big battles with lots of deaths should make you get tons of points, because they eliminate their capacity to fight you back.
when you get their capital or main cities, you should get a high bonus

if you control all their national territory, seriously, whats stopping you from asking whatever you want? except full anexation which is harder. from spain I cant get the 3 closest regions after owning them for a year and occupying for another. ( including tiny island on mediteranean.)again if this isnt realistic, I dont care so much, and so do most players. at worst if you dont like that, just dont ask for territory if you win. but let does who like get.

this one is annoying. ive had one rebel uprising and 3 spanish uprising, and after a year theyre still wandering around teritorry. spanish armies retreated.... IN FRANCE. they keep escaping fights and moving to the region from where my army came from. usually when you run away from a fox you dont run towards it. and when I do get them, yey 160 soldiers killed out of 4000. ???? when does it finnish? oh and the best part is, the spanish rebels go in my territory, get owned, then get their soldiers back. what? is there spanish recruitment in france now?

last, when you ask peace, frankly 20 dollars a year in reperations is boring, and so is scuttling ships and demobilising armies or liberating nations whove got near nothing in common with my interest. never mind they can stay.but more stuff of the type controlling a few economical buildings,get right of passage for a year, get commercial agreement, alliance or stuff like this.
this may be historical, if I want to read a book, ive got fre ones on the web and they dont take as long to turn the pages

Im not trying to dictate your scripts, youre the professionals, but im giving you ideas, and before I get answers make sure you read carefully. I gave at least ten ideas, id like some reaction on at least a few. dont answer but critising one of them.

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Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:17 pm

well, you know i dont speak for the devs and especially you can just hunt me down in the very next street op de Meir...

however, you made some important points, which are also unfortunately known and reported for months, especially the warscore system.

the Spanish just revenge for the Napoleonic wars... no i am kidding, I had the same problem with Sioux taking the rail road and SEIZING complete cities in Ohio.

and yes, i have reported too fast replacement for AI (in my case in totally sealed cities, even if it is the very last one of the whole CSA)

for the bonuses of taking major strategic objectives, it was solved from the devs with huge moral bonuses, victory points on a low scale and turnbased additional points, if i recall right.
Yu start any not scripted war like japanes-chinese in 1850 and wonder that there is no scripted end, no one can help you but time...

for need of extended diplomatic ledger, it has been broadly discussed, again and again been reported and suggestion were made, but fixing had a higher priority than new contents. whats logical.

if i would make an educated guess about the situation:

AGEOD gave us a game which was in the 1.00 version just that crappy, that when i got it from the shelf the 1.01 patch was already online. they took care, were aware about the situation

After that they gave us a good aftermarket service with a lot of beta patches when other companies would not even publish hotfixes.

AGEOD is a commercial orientated enterprise and Devs gone somewhat silent lately...

here the guess, they shifted to other/the next projects due to commercial pressure or big brothers Paradox LONG TERM PLANING.
I recall from the development diaries that PON was put on hold already before, to publish another project first...

If this, the next project, is the case, dont expect too much response for priority is still a conclusive, as flawless patch 1.02 as a next stepstone.
additionally they already announced that the 1880 campaign is a background job, they cant really plan how much they can spend/how much they have to do after the internal beta testing... its a IF-THEN relation.

to sum up:

- your points are not new
- resources dictate setting priorities
- even if they keep on like in AACW (up to patch 1.15, in what, four years maybe?), they still do it in a dedicated, but delayed mannor...

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Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:35 pm

for the victory points topic.

most wars are finished too soon, by aggressive battles.

taking whole units as POWs give you a more visible bonus of victory points. in fact there is an ongoing discussion about the problem that this HUGE bonus does not really depend on the size of the unit.
its related to thousand-heads unit i believe, thus people are angry that capturing a brigade gives unproportional many VPs, while capturing a corps gives you its equipment (guns) but quite to few VP bonus.
Moral bonus is not worth a dime, but compensated if it is a strategic objective. i do agree with that point, which some miss to understand.

As long you have losses and the enemy has losses, field battles are pointless regarding bonuses.
just read about the books of GUSTAVE LE BON.

A people ignores the losses of battles, but suddenly it drops all trust just by a single incident. The "legend" must fall, otherwise commonly shared mass illusion will not break.
thats even simulated in game, once a certain level of war weariness was caused, moral falls significantly fast and AI offers peace (it was damaged somehow in one of the last patches and AI refused nearly every peace, Russia(AI) and UK(AI) fought nearly 30 years in my game)

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Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:40 pm

god. these people are starting 1880, but I never reached 1875 in any game. I constantly restarted from - crashes at begining, patch save loss,computer change, boredom of great britain. I say they forget 1880 and make the game easier. how hard can it be to just go up in scripts and add 3-4 options and make war score double fast. I m not asking you to make a change to warscore type

¼213§# capture region 1¹ ±=400¼%

just make it faster!! no need to think we gave tons of ideas, just go in one two done.( okay thats an exageration, largely) but if you can make changes like add countries revolutionize economical system, make game 1700 rounds long, you can make these few changes

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Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:50 pm

i understand your point and say it again, i dont speak for them, but:

wars are mostly scripted, right?

they have set limits when AI shall give you peace offers in scripted wars, did they...

so, talking about changing economical numbers which cause a situation for EVERYONE including AI played countries is somewhat more than changing war score system addressing mostly some battle hardened countries / players who play very aggressive.

its again a question of time, priority and testing the overall effect. additionally the quality check from PARADOX and STEAM (at the moment for 1.02)

to get things done, or to let customers and companies waiting for things done are different issues

and dont forget, if the velocity of war score would be altered, the scripted prerequisites would have been needed to be altered either...
i dont like to see Russia reaching into North Africa, just for high enough warscore in the scripted timeframe...

you have your valid point, so would others crying out loud how unbalanced something would have changed to...

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Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:28 pm

true okay.( let me add that most people playing as russia wouldnt try for africa even if they could, its estetically wrong xD anyway theyve got all their diamonds and gold in their siberian territories.)but this is the reason why at least half the people play :war, and its almost direct friend, territorial expansion.im not passing 70 years just to get antwerp wallonia ( which I already have) and luxembourg
I wanna own the world, frankly.
anyway I gave up on antwerp im still struggling to get luxembroug, first as a defence and attacking position from prussia ( it cant cross in a day like ww1),
and also as an objective

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Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:59 pm

1.02 is not on its way to Steam, which is a good thing!

Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:25 pm

Pocus... would you just clarify whether you did mean




if not, well it will bring us more quality in the patch

if now, it does not say anything about STEAMs quality :D


[color="Red"]with "(at the moment for 1.02)" i did mean the need to get clearance from external stakeholder first about the quality of the official patch, rather than to change something new...[/color]

EDIT No. 2

ok, spare it...

"23-11-2011 15:19
AGEOD Lead Dev

Join Date:
Mar 2001

[color="Red"] Update: The 1.02 patch has been (at last!) approved and is now on its way to Steam. Once it is up there, it will be up there too [/color] "

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Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:54 pm

Pocus wrote:1.02 is not on its way to Steam, which is a good thing!

Am I allowed to laugh? :D

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Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:09 pm

ERISS, be certain i did after i saw Pocus Paradox announcement afterwards...

"Once it is up there, it will be up there too"

Well, Generalisimo has his break, Pocus needs one... :evilgrin:

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Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:33 pm

stay focused please -_-

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Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:28 pm

i tried, but Pocus made it very hard, simply aiming to the musculus risorius that way....

come on lad, i saw the posts at paradox...

first most people here are the same as there, so are the devs/mods. no need for double posting.
there you only have a higher chance to run into absolute beginners who actually do sometimes not even find the patches...

for war score i gave you an example of possible problems.

describe for every country strategic objectives which fire in F10 as soon DOW (IN THE EXTENDED CLAIMS MODE). all need to be seized which, if hold for a certain time, lets say 10 years, fire an event which triggers gradually changing national loyalty...
like HOI, get Indonesia and capture thereby remainders of the Dutch ^^

however, who the heck has the time for this? who has the time to nil all events after that kind of "expatriation" of a whole country happens ???

for the replies you got at Paradox, half is merely frustrated hot air (sorry guys but regarding rebels i have plenty of experience with USA and Russia and once you dont hunt them, but encircle them with light cavalry before engaging in battle, there is 75% chance to get POWs), a quarter are even totally false assumptions

in generally:

rebel stacks are normally coming in groups of two or three in case of tribal uprises in North America, pretty good chance you dont even see them all in any nation in any game, before they are gone again by themselves.
A picket line of light cavalry along the Minnesota and Mississippi streams worked as a picked line to condemn them in tribal lands, so did it for partisans. Cities get a brigade infantry either. No Garrisons at all. they stay OUTSIDE of the city.

same method was used to nail confederates down in streets, avoiding battle, gaining ground, leaving them only two ways open into the city or into the ocean...

tactic vs strategy, success vs time...

if you have national uprises, then either you did something wrong, got scripted uprises or militantism still does not work right. temporary problems not more ;)


Enemy armies root to the next provinces at the moment...

they should simply go to the "direction" where they have the highest military control and not just to a province without major stacks of players troops...
nothing more to change. if no more MC of at least 85%, let them drop the weapons. loyalty will not drop in seized national territory, no full annexation of major powers.
let there be a war of attrition like Spain in the Napoleonic era or the West of the USA till the 1890s...

take the war out of the game, make attrition much higher in case of such wars

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Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:32 pm

"anyway I gave up on antwerp"

to remain unfocused:

Jamitar, what happened? Was my lil bunker in Park de Brandt a nut to hard to crack :w00t:

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Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:32 am

My idea for the patch is that since it's now out on Steam, it be here for the rest of us. :(

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Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:48 pm

I have one idea - but I thin needed - at f4 screen you can tur on/off many thinks ( converting gold to money, food to canned food, supply stocpile to map) - it will be very nice if we have info if this feature on/off. Sometimes it hard to find.

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Just some simple ideas

Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:13 am

It is impossible to consistently make money in 19th century France.

1)A simple and elegant solution would be a button on F11 or F4 to close all unprofitable industries that lose say 10 pounds or more per month. With one switch, I could close all unprofitable industries instead of clicking on 20 or 30 individual industries. Then, I could open say coal making etc.

2) Speed up loading--game takes almost 5 minutes to load --too slow!

3) Speed up turn processing

With Patch 1.02 a great game that could become one of the best of all time. :thumbsup:

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Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:17 am

"1)A simple and elegant solution would be a button on F11 or F4 to close all unprofitable industries that lose say 10 pounds or more per month. With one switch, I could close all unprofitable industries instead of clicking on 20 or 30 individual industries. Then, I could open say coal making etc."

I ponder what you dont get when i explained it, also especially to you, in different threads.

[color="Red"]U R FOULED BY A RED NUMBER !!![/color]


if you need the goods to keep up other facilities running and or to sell to your people you run into following.

[color="Red"]domestic price equals import price equals export price [/color]

SO THERE IS NO BARGAIN in shutting down the structure but the capital costs which are a input factor.

however, this input of capital is COMPARABLE LOW.

it will most of the time not exceed the value of roughly about three sold goods.
[color="Red"]so you will have a structure producing eight, ten, fourteen and so on and loose the value of three.
thats the normal situation!


[color="Red"]prices are not bound to demand and offers in PON, but to offers only.[/color]

As higher the stock of the AI as more it will export, offers are not consequently related to overcapacity !!!
if the player mastered a technology, for this gives the AI additional stocks it will kill the the prices, lower them UNTIL SOMEONE HAS BOUGHT THE STOCKS FROM THE AI.

in the current state of PON this can mean over thousand of goods have to be bought before the prices are normal again. while u actually need 50-150 to run the structures in the first place.
the decrease of prices leads to the fact that you need to sell more goods to finance the structure while profit from export suffers dramatically (in too focused economies)

so, despite the fact that you need the goods to run further structures and to be sold to get capital in the first place, you cannot afford to shut them down, but in ONE SINGLE CASE:

[color="Red"]if THE PRICE FOR ONE SINGLE GOOD / INPUT FACTOR of STRUCTURES is that low that you should shut them down at all, for they (plenty of goods as output of one single structure) do not refinance the structure itself.[/color]

EDIT: or in the case you have high excess capacity and the market price is also that low and exporting got worthless thereby

so, the very moment the very low prices destroy the equation, better shut down ALL structures in F4 (leftclick/rightclick), IMPORT UNTIL PRICES ARE RESTORED and AIs stocks are that low that it cannot export.

since this happens with technological breakthroughs again and again in economies, a player using financed research will see it about all 5 years.


the only money one can save is the input factor to be paid EX ANTE for the structure itself
if you loose more money than that, ALL structures should be closed, stocks sold, imports be done until prices are restored.

(a classical trade off, saving money from maintenance costs, importing and hoping to have some saving out of it or getting to the limits to be selfsustaining in the domestic economy until you cannot grow anymore)

the rest is only fouls gold!

one simply CANNOT AFFORD to close down e.g. mechanical parts just for the fact that coal price is to low and the low price destroyed the margin of other structures in the productions chain.
if you cannot buy for the same price you have to produce to compensate the structures financial input with the produced goods itself

in another case you will not stop to produce silk if the market price is low, while you can tax it extremely high and still benefit from the luxury good at all...

THATS WHY YOU NEED RESEARCH, THATS WHY YOU NEED GAINS IN EFFICIENCY (RRs, techs, more and the right population in the province...)


LIFE IS DRAWING NOT SUMMING UP. dont stick with one single number on the silver plate, ask what is behind the number.


and yeah, i said it again and again, the false rounding effects are already enough to create a negative margin in the first place, as long prices are (normal, as designed,) high.

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Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:16 pm

Improve alt-tabing (going to desktop) support for game. Sometimes is needed to go to windows, but when switching back to game, manytimes I have black screen (for very long time) or game will have screen with graphicks, but is freezed.
Having lates NVdia drivers (560 series GK), W7.

And for trading - allways prefer domesic consuption over export - I manytimes have shut down some industries due to running out of certain resource (but have overproduction in this) only see that I sold 10 units of this product to another country (and only need 2 to run industry).

and partial AI option - say you will manage everhing, but you can deklegate some task to ai - like auto handling colonial decision, improving inftastructure (roads building, wetland drainage...etc), just to leaving you to focus on what you want, without annoing you with another things.

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Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:15 pm

when you disband units they simply dont disaper, but they are added to replacement screen, after all you invested a lor of resources to wepons, so thwy will no longer be wasted and mens will be simply put to reserve.
This hapened a lot in RL - some units was simply disbanded to reinforce another damaged units.
allow dismanting/deleting of multi level buildings - like forts, harbors and others.

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Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:40 pm

and another - implement pursuing of enemy for land units - i know about posibility to incerept enemy land unit, but agter comabt is done and enemy retreat to another prov, is no way how to destroy rest of defeated units.
And sometime si lose 1-2 turns just chasing 200 renmaing enmyis with my 40k armys.
If pursuing will be implemented, then my unit will continue to hunt them to another prov and/or reduce time needed to kill then in another prov since they will be allready half way here.

Any chance to get response from devs to my ideas ?

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Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:08 pm

isnt the "follow ´em" option already in game, or do you mean something else.

commonly in AGEODs game you can drag and drop your stack over the stack of the enemy and they will follow them until they get out of sight.



- collides with inactive leaders
- will not work for RR / river transport
- will not work if you are slowed down by lack of supply
- hide and evasion values are high (tribes, raiders)
- ...
- an army of 40K is much slower than 200 men :D

...not paid by AGEOD.
however, prone to throw them into disarray.


‘Everything is very simple in War, but the simplest thing is difficult. These difficulties accumulate and produce a friction which no man can imagine exactly who has not seen War . . . in War, through the influence of an infinity of petty circumstances, which cannot properly be described on paper, things disappoint us, and we fall short of the mark.‘


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Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:48 am

folow em ortion work, but as writen - until first combat, then they dont pursue, which lead to desctipted situation - if not all kiled in one fight,, then most likely you must hunt them in another turn.
If they hide - sure, then is no way how to pursue invisible enemy.
It may be that 200 men "army" is faster than 40k army, but mayby not if enemy is on foot and pursuing army is cavalary only (with no supply train as is not needed due to fight in friandly only teritory).
My idea of pursuing was mainly againts "forever" insurgentions of ocupied nations (in my case turkey) which happen every 3-5 turns only to be crsuhed in 1/2 turns and it gets little annnoing (and I control whole turkey + some colonies).
teritorial/colonial wars - they happened a lot in RL but are hard to simulate in game, so new type of war instead of current all-out-war will be nice.
Currently I play as russia and if I wwant to conquer manchuria/vladivostok/korea - just to acomplis this i will need to conquer whole china and occupy it for 5 years.. which doesnt sounds right (this war I didnt actualy started, just impliing my experinces with war with turkey).
I will love this limited war - in which combatanks can enter only limited enemy teritory, say contested regions + 1 neighboring of booth states, others will be imposible to enter, so that AI (and player) can take advantage of this - in teritory war booth can move many units which ohervise will be garrisons, ( next to enemy state), they can be moved to engage enemy units in contested area. And to prevent gamey concetrations, these wars start after 2 turns after beging send - efectively 3 turns after send by player or AI.
and another - you cant trade maps with another (civilized) states, so you cant neex to explore whole world for full map. And as small bonus province will be known to everyone (civilized) after 10 years (open to discusion) after first discovery.
when you look at goods at f4 screen- with pop up - add here 3 simple lines - your production cost, cost on market and buying price on domestic market.
game sen you mesage in log that you can now upgrade xxxx to protectorate/colony (same as SOI increase info).

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