Amadeus
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Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:45 pm

I have made a breakthru but I don't know what is it for,

-5 points modifier to the level of internal market penetration by foreign products


Could anyone tell me what the benefit of -5 is for?

better demand
more supply
better price competition

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yellow ribbon
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Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:42 pm

to be exactly, none of your possible answers.

i am no DEV, so I am not going to explain you the total scale of DEMAND the "points" are referring to.

So far I can give you the exact answer:

Demand is covered, like real life, by supply divided in domestic and foreign products.

This modifier describes the effect, that it is MINUS five points likely that a product your people are going to buy had been produced in any foreign country.

means, it is very good for you, for the product produced in your country and sold in your country (domestic) gives you the private capital IN your country, instead of covered demand but private capital flowing to foreign countries.

it simulates protectionism !


to make at the utmost simple explanation:

shall lead to higher private capital in your balance :D

Amadeus
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Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:43 pm

To be honest I still don't understand that.

There is a good or product that I produce by my own. Maybe in one of my factories. And I sell this good to my people by using the internal market. Am I right so far?

And now it is -5 points likely that my national people buy this goods instead of foreign goods? Do they have a choice?

In the F4 screen I sell them and I know how much before...???

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Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:03 pm

"There is a good or product that I produce by my own. Maybe in one of my factories. And I sell this good to my people by using the internal market. Am I right so far?"

yeap, people of your nation have a choice to buy goods from your country or from a foreign producers. (as you dont bother whether your computer was made in USA or China)

for the rest:

nope, u misunderstood me!

lets say there would be an imagined ratio of 50% of demand bought from companies IN your country,
the other 50% is bought from FOREIGN producers.

foreign market penetration would be a maximum of 50% (at a level of 100 points (factor 1 describes there are no limits to export goods to your market: means 0,5x1,0),
so you cannot sell more of your goods, for people buy also foreign goods.

now you have this tech researched and its "(minus) five points" HARDER TO OFFER FOREIGN GOODS in your market.

(means [0,5x0,95] for people are still indifferent from whom they would buy, but cannot get as many foreign products due to lower foreign market penetration in internal / domestic market)

of course the ratio of 50% is a number which just crossed my minds for an explanation, does not describe games mechanism!

given this, your people HAVE TO BUY MORE GOODS WHICH WERE PRODUCED IN YOUR COUNTRY

now: [0,5i+(0,5f-[0,5fx0,95])]x1,00 == a new INTERNAL market share of 52,5 % instead of 50%

:wacko: :wacko: :wacko:

or something like this... (its to late in the evening to remember basics of microeconomics)

just means you have your 50% from the beginning and additionally the lost "FIVE POINTS"-related foreign market share added to your own market share

the end of this chain:

YOU HAVE MORE SELLS (not higher total demand), thus more private capital


***************

otherwise the concept of market penetration makes no sense.
and the amount of consumption, as well as rate of chance to buy/sell is effected by other technologies.

market penetration (its wiki, i admit. i am a economist i would explain it too complicated^^)

"Market penetration is one of the four growth strategies of the Product-Market Growth Matrix defined by Ansoff.

FOLLOWING IS IMPORTANT

Market penetration occurs when a company enters/penetrates a market with current products. The best way to achieve this is by gaining competitors' customers (part of their market share). Other ways include attracting non-users of your product or convincing current clients to use more of your product/service (by advertising etc). Ansoff developed the Product-Market Growth Matrix to help firms recognise if there was any advantage of entering a market....

Market penetration occurs when the product and market already exists

Other growth strategies include:
Product development (existing markets, new products): McDonalds is always within the fast-food industry, but frequently markets new burgers.
Market development (new markets, existing products): Lucozade was first marketed for sick children and then rebranded to target athletes.
Diversification (new markets, new products): Mohen A.S, Bion Products, Selectron Ltd, bk

The penetration that brands and products have can be recorded by companies such as ACNielsen and TNS who offer panel measurement services to calculate this and other consumer measures. In these cases penetration is given as a percentage of a country's households who have bought that particular brand or product at least once within a defined period of time."

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Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:08 pm

PS;

i understood F4 shows in the certain column only domestic sells (the column where you may define how many goods of a certain kind of good and in a certain group of goods (%) shall have priority to be sold internal / domestic.

so far, yes u can see THIS number of domestic sells, but i believe you dont see the flow to imported foreign goods

try to experiment:

set high customs (and/or low taxes) and this numbers of domestic sells should increase dramatically

other influence is, the mentioned foreign market penetration in your market, the number of population, the disposal income in your economy...

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Sir Garnet
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Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:50 pm

Assuming market penetration is working in the game, it would be interesting to know what it means.

It appears that the player controls import purchases through purchase orders, and the population satisfies all or part of its total consumption need (shown in the F4 ledger) from the stockpile. I'm not seeing a penetration component other than that which I control (the imports).

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Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:02 pm

as i said, try experiment with the CUSTOMS !

i suppose this numbers of possible demand of certain groups of goods describes only the domestic sells of own/domestic goods

set everything to zero and move along just on the CUSTOM scale

as higher the customs, as more possible domestic sells

there shall be a defined reaction shown in the column where u can set how much stock (%) should be reserved or given free for domestic trade.

compare the numbers of the maximum amounts of goods in every group of goods.
they will alter

not sure about positively or negatively , for i havent a game running, i am waiting for a call from a project partner in Thailand before i can leave my desk at work... :cuit:

PS:

yeap, i am right at least with my assumption regarding total demand:

without tariff / custom: demand food group is +++ 46 +++

with highest (85%) tariff / custom: food group is +++ 79 +++

in my "lab experiment" for you as my audience, i do have 11% corporate tax

without corporate tax, demand does not change, only private capital goes up

splendid implementation of economic concept of market penetration

unfortunately, as we know inflation had been repaired just lately

and i regret to say:

excise tax seems not to influence demand, but also only disproportionately influences private capital... you wanted to hurt the economy to prevent fast built economic superpowers... here we go, just jump on this train!

for more than my ´lil lecture in economics, please do not hesitate to read the English language edition of VARIAN´s - Microeconomics

Amadeus
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Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:14 am

Amadeus wrote:I have made a breakthru but I don't know what is it for,

-5 points modifier to the level of internal market penetration by foreign products


Could anyone tell me what the benefit of -5 is for?

better demand
more supply
better price competition


That sounds to me in very short words like a "better competition ability for my internal market"

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Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:01 am

*sigh*

yes, you would call it so... and for the sake of gameplay this mind is sufficient

Even accepting that it basically gives you more private capital would have been far enough for the most people... ;)

*****************

no one with the basic knowledge of economics would describe it that way, for you have no single additional comparative advantage in competition gained over the other countries, you have them merely EXCLUDED A BIT MORE from your domestic market.
literally it "DESTROYS" competition, rather than "IMPROVE" it :p apy:

supply of goods is not effected either, foreign goods just sold elsewhere (what would be another lecture about edgeworth)

theres also no difference in the total demand, just a reshuffling of buyers to same products from other producers

(shifting the curve is not reshaping it as a noble prize winner used to say some 75 years ago for theorys which are obsolete today, but still mandatory to know about)

thus, all of your three assumptions in the beginning are in sense of any textbook completely wrong

as i said, its just kind of PROTECTIONISM and raising tariffs does the same job, with far higher effects instantly and the side effect to give you more private capital as well as more state money


however, fine to feel that i have not wasted my time at the university at all :leprechau

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