Size of 19th Century armies

[Evans]

I just wanted to ask (as this is the kind of thing you'd probably have found out for the game), what were army sizes of the Great Powers between 1848 and 1914/18? And how did this sit relative to population, reservists etc? I'm just wondering about the balance of power, because although I'm reading AGP Taylor's The Struggle for Mastery in Europe, 1848-1918 it's an analytical history and doesn't have any data on this kind of thing. Hearing Prussia is stronger than Austria, I want to know numbers (partly so I can appreciate how far other factors played a role in military endeavours, e.g. Needle Guns and superior concentration of force).

[aryaman]

I just wanted to ask (as this is the kind of thing you'd probably have found out for the game), what were army sizes of the Great Powers between 1848 and 1914/18? And how did this sit relative to population, reservists etc? I'm just wondering about the balance of power, because although I'm reading AGP Taylor's The Struggle for Mastery in Europe, 1848-1918 it's an analytical history and doesn't have any data on this kind of thing. Hearing Prussia is stronger than Austria, I want to know numbers (partly so I can appreciate how far other factors played a role in military endeavours, e.g. Needle Guns and superior concentration of force).

Do you ask for the total size of military establishments, or the size of field armies? Field armies remained relatively small for a long period

[Sol Invictus]

As you can imagine, these figures varied over the period you specified but here are some figures about in the middle from Chandler:

Russia(1878) 600,000 150,000 Reserves 1,000,000 total potential Reserves male population 15-55 17,700,000

Prussia(1870) 180,000 355,000 Reserves Male population 15-55 10,600,000

Austria(1867) 350,000 120,000 Reserves males polulation 15-55 9,100,00

France(1870) 370,000 292,00 reserves 400,000 National Guard/Gardes Mobiles Male population 15-55 10,900,000

Great Britain(1860) 70,000(UK) 200,000 reserves 280,000 Indian Army including 65,000 European Regulars Male population 15-55 7,500,000

USA(1860) 20,000 Total population 32,000,000 including 5.5 million blacks both free and slave

[Evans]

Do you ask for the total size of military establishments, or the size of field armies? Field armies remained relatively small for a long period

Both, I'm interested to know how many powers were supposedly able to field on paper, how many they could field, and what proportion of these were actually sent out on the field of battle. Also an analysis of why would be very useful, so pointing me towards books if a synopsis is too difficult, lengthy or time consuming will be fine

P.S. As I'm a postgraduate student I have access to academic sites like JSTOR and university libraries, so don't worry if you know of stuff buried in journals and the like!

[husky1943]

I personally cannot wait to be Czar. I have every intention of taking over the entire South American continent!

[Pocus]

That won't be possible

[RELee]

That won't be possible

YES!

I like that sound of that.

[Hohenlohe]

As you can imagine, these figures varied over the period you specified but here are some figures about in the middle from Chandler:

Russia(1878) 600,000 150,000 Reserves 1,000,000 total potential Reserves male population 15-55 17,700,000

Prussia(1870) 180,000 355,000 Reserves Male population 15-55 10,600,000

Austria(1867) 350,000 120,000 Reserves males polulation 15-55 9,100,00

France(1870) 370,000 292,00 reserves 400,000 National Guard/Gardes Mobiles Male population 15-55 10,900,000

Great Britain(1860) 70,000(UK) 200,000 reserves 280,000 Indian Army including 65,000 European Regulars Male population 15-55 7,500,000

USA(1860) 20,000 Total population 32,000,000 including 5.5 million blacks both free and slave

Do you mention David G. Chandler as your source??Which of his books contain that data? And if you mean another Chandler can you please tell me whom. I am very interested in getting such information.
Did your source include the Prussian Landwehr as Reserve or did your source mention the immediate reserve after doing military service?
As I know from history the Prussians did 2-4 years active service then came the reserve until age of 35 and then the Landwehr(like a National Guard)until the age of 45, but I do not know how this was the case before 1871 or only afterwards.
I would be happy if you could enlighten me...

greetings

Hohenlohe

[Sol Invictus]

Do you mention David G. Chandler as your source??Which of his books contain that data? And if you mean another Chandler can you please tell me whom. I am very interested in getting such information.
Did your source include the Prussian Landwehr as Reserve or did your source mention the immediate reserve after doing military service?
As I know from history the Prussians did 2-4 years active service then came the reserve until age of 35 and then the Landwehr(like a National Guard)until the age of 45, but I do not know how this was the case before 1871 or only afterwards.
I would be happy if you could enlighten me...

greetings

Hohenlohe

Hohenlohe, yes I was referring to David G. Chandler and the data is found in his "Atlas of Military Strategy" which was published in 1980. He doesn't break the Reserves down into seperate classes though he does state that conscription was for 2-3 years. I know that at some point around this time that a new law was passed that increased the period of active duty.

[Adlertag]

I know that at some point around this time that a new law was passed that increased the period of active duty.

It seems that in 1868, Albrecht Von Roon managed to have his reform adopted. (Michael Howard, The Franco-Prussian War).

[Hohenlohe]

Hohenlohe, yes I was referring to David G. Chandler and the data is found in his "Atlas of Military Strategy" which was published in 1980. He doesn't break the Reserves down into seperate classes though he does state that conscription was for 2-3 years. I know that at some point around this time that a new law was passed that increased the period of active duty.

Wonderful! Thanks, dear Sol, I have already ordered this Book for a decent price yesterday by Amazon and and I will be very happy to get more information about the 18th and 19th century.


heartful greetings

Hohenlohe

[Hohenlohe]

It seems that in 1868, Albrecht Von Roon managed to have his reform adopted. (Michael Howard, The Franco-Prussian War).

The result of this reform were better trained soldiers,which were more professional and together with improved tactics and the needlegun the Prussians were superior in comparison to the French army of that era.
And the influence of the conservative officer over the conscripts in the standing army weight more in comparison to the liberal Landwehr which was prefered by the Prussian Parliament before the military reforms became active.
Bismarck supported a strong standing and active army, but the Parliament supported the more liberal Landwehr which should only be called up in wartime.But Bismarck enforced the military reform act with the help of the king against the liberal Parliament.

greetings

Hohenlohe

[aryaman]

According to G. Wawro "The Austro-Prussian War", in 1866 Autria moblized 400.000 troops, Prussia 300.000 and Italy 200.000. In the decissive theater of Bohemia, 245.000 Austrians faced 254.000 Prussians.He deals with the enormouse problems the armies of the time had to face to be supplied on the march. An army corps of 30.000 required 50 Kms of open roads to accomodate his march columns and trains.Prussian Elbe army and First Army were starving through the invasion of Bohemia because they stretched their lines of suppply advancing too fast.

[Sol Invictus]

Wonderful! Thanks, dear Sol, I have already ordered this Book for a decent price yesterday by Amazon and and I will be very happy to get more information about the 18th and 19th century.


heartful greetings

Hohenlohe

Your most welcome! The book has quite a few nice maps and some good data. It also covers some of the tactical inovations that developed at this time. It is a good overview of the era but doesn't go into great detail on any particular aspect since it covers such a broad span of time. I have always enjoyed referring back to it over the years.

[Evans]

Excellent stuff, I'll try and chase up some of these books

[Palisadoes]

An important thing to remember in this is that both Russia and Austria had large armies on paper, though due to economic reasons could often only field a small proportion of that number of men. Including a concept such as equipment - with the necessary maintenance costs, etc. being modelled with this too - would highlight this problem many countries faced during this period well (i.e. Russia and Austria had large armies on paper, though couldn't afford the equipment to actually have an effective army of the same size).