Questions about PoN supply system

[Husky]

1. Is there is any upper limit how much supplies can accumulate structures during production/distribution phase? Every appropriate structure have limit how many supplies it can "ask" but if structure producing supplies self if it stop production when full and cant distribute to other structures?
2. What is supply range for units outside supply structures? Are they need to be in adjacent region with structure or 1 region away from it? And how about supply wagons?
3. Can units forage only when in enemy regions? I moved Russian cossack unit
in middle of steppes near Aral 3 regions away from any friendly structure ant this unit still "Supplied" every turn. Is it correct with supply model of PON?

[Husky]

So no any answers from AGEOD guys?
It's a pity, looks like that supply system in game working much different then described in manual or in-game tooltips.

1. Supply source structures producing General Supply and Ammunition not each tour (15 days) but only once every 2 tours (30 days).
If you build Supply depot lvl1 (rate 8 supp/1 ammo with 100% loyalty) far away from any other structures and units (no consumption or distribution) you can see it rate of production:
1 turn - 6 supp/2 ammo accumulated
2 - 6/2
3 - 12/4
4 - 12/4
5 - 18/6
6 - 18/6
7 - 24/8
8 - 24/8
9 - 30/10

2. Units out-of-supply also using their inherent General Supply only once a month every 2 tours. Most of land units have 2 portions of General Supply and if they unable to satisfy their General Supply requirements more then 2 month (4 turns) this unit can suffer sporadically attrition hits, also once every 2 turns. But often they also suddenly become "supplied" still staying same region middle of Siberian taiga far away from any supply sources.
Naval units is much pure test. In the middle of ocean they cant use hidden General Supply sources from the nearby regions but also utilize their inherent supply only monthly. And when Russian frigate finally received status "unsupplied" it mystical managed to stay in ocean during two months without any attrition hits or cohesion loss.

May be game have some recent undocumented changes in model of supply system? In this case will be good to have some explanations from developers. Supply system is one of the key conceptions of PoN and if it don't work as intended all gameplay is broken

[Pocus]

The PON systems should work as the AACW one, with a few improvements. Also supply production and usage in PON is done once every 2 turns only.

Have you read that?

http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/Supply

[Husky]

Sorry but correct manual and in game tooltips, which talk about every turn.
And how about supply range for unit and other my questions?
From Wiki: "Therefore, in order to have their supplies replenished, units must be co-located with a supply producing/storage structure (that possesses the necessary amounts of supply points) or located adjacent to a region with an unbesieged supply producing/storage structure." But this is not true for PoN, unit can stay supplied few region outside from supply structures.

[Frank]

Hi Pocus

how can i send supplies to colonies far away from Europe? For example if am playing Great Britain and i want to send supplies from England to Hong Kong because i want to station a large fleet or army there do i need a merchant fleet in every MTB. Or must i have a chain of depots around the route to Hong Kong so that the supplies can be transported?

Thanks

[Pocus]

Sorry but correct manual and in game tooltips, which talk about every turn.
And how about supply range for unit and other my questions?
From Wiki: "Therefore, in order to have their supplies replenished, units must be co-located with a supply producing/storage structure (that possesses the necessary amounts of supply points) or located adjacent to a region with an unbesieged supply producing/storage structure." But this is not true for PoN, unit can stay supplied few region outside from supply structures.

Because the manual was done before the rule added.

No change in PON, really. If you can maintain your units farther than one region away from a supplying structure, then it means you have a supply wagon, and this worked as is in past game.

[Pocus]

Hi Pocus

how can i send supplies to colonies far away from Europe? For example if am playing Great Britain and i want to send supplies from England to Hong Kong because i want to station a large fleet or army there do i need a merchant fleet in every MTB. Or must i have a chain of depots around the route to Hong Kong so that the supplies can be transported?

Thanks

You have to make sure all the MTB (Maritime Trade Boxes) going from London to Hong Kong are supplied... Although I suspect starting from India should be enough. Transport and merchant ships in MTB will take supplies from ports and move them to others ports.

[Frank]

Thanks Pocus.

So this mean supplies can be push and pull directly from one MTB to another MTB? I ask therefore because in the demo i played France and move all my battle fleets to Senegal for a test. I build a 4 Depot there and after 10 turns no supply was transported and the fleets had only minimal supplies left. And i had a merchant fleet in the Western Europe and Guinea MTB.

[Czert]

Is here any way to view you total supply consumtion and production (total, and then from converting goods/produced by strucures) and how for many turns will suplies be enough, if production from goods are turned off ( meaning - that your ports/depots are enougt to fully suply your army) ?

[willgamer]

Is here any way to view you total supply consumtion and production (total, and then from converting goods/produced by strucures) and how for many turns will suplies be enough, if production from goods are turned off ( meaning - that your ports/depots are enougt to fully suply your army) ?

Short answer- The commerce (F4) screen probably provides answers to most of your questions. It is detailed and takes some studing to make best use of it.

I'd encourage you, if you haven't yet, to download the demo and give it a spin.

[Pocus]

Thanks Pocus.

So this mean supplies can be push and pull directly from one MTB to another MTB? I ask therefore because in the demo i played France and move all my battle fleets to Senegal for a test. I build a 4 Depot there and after 10 turns no supply was transported and the fleets had only minimal supplies left. And i had a merchant fleet in the Western Europe and Guinea MTB.

Not exactly, a MTB takes supply from harbors around its area, and distribute it to others harbors within the same area. For example Southampton supply can be given to Gibraltar, and then Gilbraltar gives to Malta.

I believe that the demo has a problem though on that, as I fixed some code a few weeks ago. This will need a patch though to make into the current version, sorry for that.

[Frank]

Not exactly, a MTB takes supply from harbors around its area, and distribute it to others harbors within the same area. For example Southampton supply can be given to Gibraltar, and then Gilbraltar gives to Malta.

I believe that the demo has a problem though on that, as I fixed some code a few weeks ago. This will need a patch though to make into the current version, sorry for that.

Aha i thought this. But this mean that there is no possibility to supply the Senegal from France because it is connected to the Guinea MTB and i need a harbour both connected to the Western Europe and Guinea MTB to send supplies to Senegal. And my future troops in Indochina i must supply therefore locally? Or did i understand this wrong?

[Pocus]

This is close to what you understood, right... There seem to be some loopholes left, but they will be plugged for the next patch. This is not a promise but a fact, as I just updated the code right now. Now we have to wait for the first patch to be out

So new rule...

All harbors of the area where you have your capital can be used by any MTB as a source of supply.

This is in addition to the past rule:

A MTB can use harbors adjacent to the area it is in as a source of supply.

[Frank]

This is close to what you understood, right... There seem to be some loopholes left, but they will be plugged for the next patch. This is not a promise but a fact, as I just updated the code right now. Now we have to wait for the first patch to be out

So new rule...

All harbors of the area where you have your capital can be used by any MTB as a source of supply.

This is in addition to the past rule:

A MTB can use harbors adjacent to the area it is in as a source of supply.

This looks like to be a good solution. Keep up the good work.

[Czert]

Short answer- The commerce (F4) screen probably provides answers to most of your questions. It is detailed and takes some studing to make best use of it.

I'd encourage you, if you haven't yet, to download the demo and give it a spin.

I have donloaded demo, I think as one of first,and reported some bugs.
Looking at comerce screen sound interesing, will try it to chceck more precise.

[willgamer]

I have donloaded demo, I think as one of first,and reported some bugs.
Looking at comerce screen sound interesing, will try it to chceck more precise.

I should also add that the current trading system is rather awkward and burdensome (especially to delete trades).

The devs and well aware and apparently already have beta patches that address the concerns.

So perhaps in a month or so much more can be said about managing commerce.

[Husky]

Is there is any supply decay during supply distribution from one depot to other?
Tobolsk depot sent away 30 points of supply but only near region that received supply received 20-30% less then was send.

[Pocus]

Only in colonial regions (generally unless you are above some thousands points). But units will use up the supply before you can check it.

[vaalen]

It would be most useful if someone could explain or provide a link to how supply works in sieges.

I besieged Delhi in the Sepoy Mutiny scenario for 5 months (10 turns) and attacked with 40000 men on the next turn, only to find that the Mughals still had 81000 men in the city, and five full strength supply units. I suffered a decisive defeat.

I think there is a gap in my supply understanding, though I read the manual and have played the ageod systems for thousands of hours over the years.

Thanks for your help

[Pocus]

Weird... did you maintain at least one of your force with line units, in non passive posture all this time? Do you have a clue if they had supply wagons?

[NefariousKoel]

It would be most useful if someone could explain or provide a link to how supply works in sieges.

I besieged Delhi in the Sepoy Mutiny scenario for 5 months (10 turns) and attacked with 40000 men on the next turn, only to find that the Mughals still had 81000 men in the city, and five full strength supply units. I suffered a decisive defeat.

I think there is a gap in my supply understanding, though I read the manual and have played the ageod systems for thousands of hours over the years.

Thanks for your help

I thought the besieged units could easily hold out as long as their supply wagons lasted. If they had five inside the besieged city with them, I'd imagine it would take a very long time to starve them down.

[vaalen]

Weird... did you maintain at least one of your force with line units, in non passive posture all this time? Do you have a clue if they had supply wagons?

Yes, my besieging force had line infantry in defensive or offensive posture at all times.

They did have five supply wagons at the time of the battle, 5 months after the siege began. But since they had 81,000 troops in the city, I would have thought they would have used up those supply wagons after 5 months of siege.

I remember something else- after about two months of siege, the power rating of their largest besieged force(23 units) was down to 39. But the power rating went back up to 385 on the next turn, even though the siege continued.

[Pocus]

Something must have happened them... I don't think there can be a bug in this part, this is the same code as AACW about sieges. Bring the save though, will all necessary backups.

[vaalen]

Something must have happened them... I don't think there can be a bug in this part, this is the same code as AACW about sieges. Bring the save though, will all necessary backups.

Unfortunately, the save was overwritten when I continued the game and ended the session. The next time I loaded, the save was gone. I think that PoN must automatically save games, unless I am missing something.