dbeves
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Posts: 11
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Refund

Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:06 am

I must admit to being a little mystified at all the plaudits being heaped upon AGEOD for selling a product they knowingly knew was not fit to release. Sorry gents - but a refund for a failed product should be the rule - not the exception. It is nothing more than a reflection of the parlous state of customer assurance in the computer game world that you all see this as so unusual.

Having said that - AGEOD in the post failed to explain exactly how I go about getting a refund ... and how do they manage that ... I have my key already so I presume there is a method of disabling it after I recieve my refund. I bought an online pre-order.

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calvinus
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:06 am

Dear all,

the freeze issue is very close to be solved and fixed! I had three bad days of hard work like never before in my life, but I'm confident I have undertaken the right way for the fix.

My apologises again for this unforeseenable problem. Nobody of the beta-testing team ever experienced such a incredible behaviour...

It seems that the multi-threaded engine of game AI is "not able" to run with some CPUs, so hanging down totally and letting the game wait for ever! :bonk:

So I had to go and fix this hardware incompatibility by totally refactoring the way AI works. :wacko:

I managed also to fix some nasty bugs in battles (air, sieges in 4-player mode, naval)... herewith the current stage of patch:

[Version 1.0.4]
***********

Improvements:
- Execution of AI actions does not force the recalculation of map window until the AI has finished
- Breakthroughs can now be planned since the very first round of battle
- Failed technology research tests do not cause anymore the abandonement of the technological research
- Game AI has been moved to the main game thread

Fixed bugs:
- Removed rare game engine freeze on execution of diplomatic orders
- Fixed bug in automatic RPs & MUNs reinforcements calculation
- Fixed a bug in "draw events" window that prevented the close of the window in some rare case
- "Engage" button in naval battles has now no constraints, so any lock in naval combats is resolved
- Fixed a minor bug in Fog of War calculation on allied units for 4-players multiplayer sessions
- Check-boxes for music & sounds on/off in Options window now works fine
- Activate/deactivate of musics play-back from Options window now works fine
- The game AI freezes has been removed
- Fixed the hang of sieges in 4-players campaign in single-player mode
- Fixed some bugs in air battle setup

The patch will come soon! Give us a bit more time and patience, please. :love:

Thanks,
Calvinus.

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Nikel
Posts: 2574
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:17 am

calvinus wrote:It seems that the multi-threaded engine of game AI is "not able" to run with some CPUs, so hanging down totally and letting the game wait for ever! :bonk:



I hope that Pocus will not be discouraged now to add multi core support to the other AGEod games :niark: ;)


Now seriously, this minireview is out, perhaps you could contact the reviewer so he can take a second look after the patch is out

http://wroteontheground.blogspot.com/2008/11/world-war-one-la-grande-guerre-1914.html

dbeves
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Refund

Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:36 am

I must admit to being a little mystified at all the plaudits being heaped upon AGEOD for selling a product they knowingly knew was not fit to release. Sorry gents - but a refund for a failed product should be the rule - not the exception. It is nothing more than a reflection of the parlous state of customer assurance in the computer game world that you all see this as so unusual.

Having said that - AGEOD in the post failed to explain exactly how I go about getting a refund ... and how do they manage that ... I have my key already so I presume there is a method of disabling it after I recieve my refund. I bought an online pre-order.

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Clovis
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:36 am

Just for fun what CPUs are incompatible?
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dooya
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:39 am

dbeves wrote:I must admit to being a little mystified at all the plaudits being heaped upon AGEOD for selling a product they knowingly knew was not fit to release. Sorry gents - but a refund for a failed product should be the rule - not the exception. It is nothing more than a reflection of the parlous state of customer assurance in the computer game world that you all see this as so unusual.

Having said that - AGEOD in the post failed to explain exactly how I go about getting a refund ... and how do they manage that ... I have my key already so I presume there is a method of disabling it after I recieve my refund. I bought an online pre-order.
Just send an email with your details of purchase to support@ageod.com
No quote - No bullshit!

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Lannes
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:40 am

286, 386 and 486 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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PhilThib
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:40 am

To get your refund, just contact us (mail or PM here) and the necessary will be done within 12 hours. Note that nothing will be possible after French closing hours, as this has to go through the Bank ;)

As for the game, your serial will be invalidated, making it unable to work with future patches. In case you still want to try the game later, when you feel it is stable enough for your taste, then you just need to buy it again.
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Rafiki
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 10:46 am

[color="Blue"]Threads dealing with this have been merged [/color]
[CENTER]Latest patches: AACW :: NCP :: WIA :: ROP :: RUS :: PON :: AJE
Visit AGEWiki - your increasingly comprehensive source for information about AGE games
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Slick Wilhelm
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:12 pm

dbeves wrote:I must admit to being a little mystified at all the plaudits being heaped upon AGEOD for selling a product they knowingly knew was not fit to release. Sorry gents - but a refund for a failed product should be the rule - not the exception. It is nothing more than a reflection of the parlous state of customer assurance in the computer game world that you all see this as so unusual.

Having said that - AGEOD in the post failed to explain exactly how I go about getting a refund ... and how do they manage that ... I have my key already so I presume there is a method of disabling it after I recieve my refund. I bought an online pre-order.


I agree with you in spirit, but considering the current reality of how things are in the gaming software world....I think one can admit that AGEOD's willingness to admit mistakes and offer a full refund, is a step in the right direction for all computer gaming companies. Their desire to make things right is a fine example that one can hope other game companies will emulate.

And as far as "knowingly not fit to release", you have a point. I test software for a living, so I can understand how a bug with certain CPU's can pass under the radar screen. I'm sure they will learn from this and will in the future ensure that they test on a wider array of hardware platforms.

What I don't find acceptable is that they released the game without having a comprehensive game manual in pdf format. They've been in the business long enough to know that is a big "no no" in the gaming world.

In the end, they came forward and admitted that mistakes were made, and pledged to make things right ASAP. Moving forward, as long as they learn from these mistakes and don't repeat them, I think their customer base will remain loyal and continue to purchase their products.

I now rank AGEOD right up there with Matrix Games as the two finest examples of computer gaming publishers/development companies.

Johnnie
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:33 pm

Calvinus:

Are the "freezes" related to the CTDs and are they both addressed with the 1.04 patch ??

Keep up the good and quick work.

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Franciscus
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It's urgent to get out the patch ASAP !

Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:40 pm

Nikel wrote:(...)
Now seriously, this minireview is out, perhaps you could contact the reviewer so he can take a second look after the patch is out

http://wroteontheground.blogspot.com/2008/11/world-war-one-la-grande-guerre-1914.html


I took the liberty to quote this review by Mike Kreuzer:

"Version 1.03
There's quite possibly a game -- maybe even a good game --hidden in here somewhere, but after two days I've given up trying to find out where.

The confusing and hopelessly threadbare manual fails to provide more than vague hints at what's meant to be happening, and the unstable and often simply unreadable interface is the worst kind of rushed-to-market mess. It crashes. Often. Freezes up; writes all over the screen, sometimes in other languages and often in meaningless jumbles of semi-English sentences printed over the top of one another ...

This game may yet get patched to a playable state, but right now it's not even close to merchantable quality. Don't buy it, you'll be sorry if you do.
"

:(
It is a hard review but let's face it, it is probably not at all dissimilar to the opinion of most of the players of version 1.03. This reviewer has in the past made good critics of past AGEOD games, so this is not necessarily a biased review.
Today (14/11/08) is apparently the day that at least in some European countries the WW1 box will be available in stores, presumably with version 1 or 1.03. It is very unfortunate and potentially disastrous for new buyers of this game having similar opinions and further reviews also being (rightfully) so negative.
That's why I think that the release of a good patch is imperative, now, and some good PR work will be needed toward reviewers. Also, the patch should be well advertised, preferably on the AGEOD page. Even so, let's hope AGEOD does not get a irreparably bad reputation about all this.

TheDeadeye
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:24 pm

Franciscus wrote:I took the liberty to quote this review by Mike Kreuzer:

"Version 1.03
There's quite possibly a game -- maybe even a good game --hidden in here somewhere, but after two days I've given up trying to find out where.

The confusing and hopelessly threadbare manual fails to provide more than vague hints at what's meant to be happening, and the unstable and often simply unreadable interface is the worst kind of rushed-to-market mess. It crashes. Often. Freezes up; writes all over the screen, sometimes in other languages and often in meaningless jumbles of semi-English sentences printed over the top of one another ...

This game may yet get patched to a playable state, but right now it's not even close to merchantable quality. Don't buy it, you'll be sorry if you do.
"

:(
It is a hard review but let's face it, it is probably not at all dissimilar to the opinion of most of the players of version 1.03. This reviewer has in the past made good critics of past AGEOD games, so this is not necessarily a biased review.
Today (14/11/08) is apparently the day that at least in some European countries the WW1 box will be available in stores, presumably with version 1 or 1.03. It is very unfortunate and potentially disastrous for new buyers of this game having similar opinions and further reviews also being (rightfully) so negative.
That's why I think that the release of a good patch is imperative, now, and some good PR work will be needed toward reviewers. Also, the patch should be well advertised, preferably on the AGEOD page. Even so, let's hope AGEOD does not get a irreparably bad reputation about all this.


Woah, woah, easy man. I think you are looking at the situation in a way too darkly way. AGEOD has had some good success with their previous games and have shown that they listen to their fans and also provide patches aplenty while some of their counterparts dish out one patch or two max and move on.

It is one hell of a grand and respectable step for them to acknowledge the state of the product and are actively participating in the forums to keep us informed, again something that you don't see very often in "bigger" development companies. What more of a good PR can you ask for than what they have already done so far? The reviewers just take the released product in its current state and review based on that. Fine, that's their job, aspiration, hobby, whatever. However, it should not be considered as a deterent or even a fatal blow to AGEOD's future success and proof that they take complaints seriously, even less so to those who have bought AGEOD's products before.

They are offering refunds for those who are not willing to wait for the improvements and that is fair enough, ESPECIALLY for something that you bought online in the form of a digital download.

So in short, yes this is a little bit of a gaffe start for World War 1 but nothing something that will seal the fate of doom for AGEOD.

veji1
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:31 pm

Well he has a point though, selling a game via download only, means that customers know where they got it, go on the web, and if the game baaaadly needs patching, they know where to get it.

But selling an unfinished game in a box in a store is suicidal... I remember buying "Napoleon 1813" by empire in 1999 with great expectations and being left fuming by the imposture of a product that that game was... i never bought any Empire product again..

I am really sad for ageod that they have done this mistake and I hope as well that it doesn't damage their image... And when the game is polished, i look forward to buying and playing it, but I will bide my time...

I am a fairly "typical" customer in the sense that I learnt about Ageod via the paradox forums when they issued BOA, i read a few AARs and thought this is an interesting company. I didn't buy BOA though because the subject didn't interest me enough. But when I saw AACW... I had to buy that one... And i have enjoyed it immensely despite imperfections, it is a brilliant game...

I haven't bought NCP because I didn't like the fact that the campaigns were so short and so "structured", after the freedom enjoyed in AACW, it didn't appeal to me, but I would have bought NCP with more freedom, some form of GC without much diplomatic engine really, an event driven campaign using the AACW engine, with a foreign intervention level as in AACW to trigger new coalition members, etc...

I am impatient for an expanded NCP with the full diplomatic engine and will most certainly buy it. I am intrigued by VGN, but will wait to see what's in there (been burnt by Victoria from Paradox) and when I start to see AARS and happy comments about the WWI game, I will most certainly buy it...

But to this day I only bought one AGEOD game... I will possibly buy 2 more games in the next year (VGN and WWI), but making sure these games are stable and work is a key, i won't buy them just to support AGEOD...

Anyway, i guess AGEOD and Luca should get a slap on their wrist for their mishandling of the launch of this game, learn from it, react accordingly (this is what they are doing so far) and make sure that for VGN, NCPII they do not come even remotely close to the type of mistake they have made, because this could seriously damage the company...

Just to finish, I wish well to AGEOD team and look forward to buying their games.

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Clovis
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:34 pm

in 1999, net use was less frequent. i'm pretty sure today a larger part of players have a connection and use it.
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Elmo
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:39 pm

Offering a refund is a nice gesture. When the a couple of patches are out and the detailed manual is finished I'll certainly take another look at this game.

veji1
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:41 pm

Clovis wrote:in 1999, net use was less frequent. i'm pretty sure today a larger part of players have a connection and use it.


Of course, but if you buy a game in a shop, a susbstantial part of the customers will never go look for the patch... so this still hurts the company, a lot...

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Clovis
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:50 pm

veji1 wrote:Of course, but if you buy a game in a shop, a susbstantial part of the customers will never go look for the patch... so this still hurts the company, a lot...


less than before. Buying in shop doesn't mean having no internet connection. A large part of players dislike to buy online. But they will go on the company site to get info and patches.

In a general way, I feel again it's prematurate to draw lessons. The game was released a few days ago. A patch is imminent. From I understand, most of the problems comes from one source, ie the CPU incompatibility. The rest belongs to the normal glitches of a new system ( some rate CTD, bugs here and there in the game system, and interface annoyances). The critical point remaining is the lack of a complete manual and this one is certainly closing the game for many casual players.
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PhilThib
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:55 pm

Indeed, it appears that the key technical problem is hardware-related. It's almost fixed now...
The manual is underway too, will just take a bit longer than 3 days ;) :coeurs:
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Ian Coote
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Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:17 pm

While waiting for the patch I'm just checking the interface and the map,seeing where troops and ships are located at start,seeing what all the different buttons do.I must say this game looks great.

Dragoneur
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Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:33 pm

PhilThib wrote:Dear Purchasers of AGEOD’s WWI,
...

Philippe Thibaut
General Manager, AGEOD
:love:


Greetings!

I just wanted to say CHAPEAU as well.

While waiting why not try AGEOD's "Montjoie"? It's a much simpler, but thoroughly delightful game!

Could we have a sequel to "Montoie", like England's "War of the Roses" or Pascal Lambert's new boardgame "Renaissance"?

Please, Please, Please? :) :) :)

Mille fois merci!


Cordialement,

Dragoneur

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Prussian Prince
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Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:53 pm

I remember having problems with AACW when I first got it and it is now one of my favorite games. I will wait for the patches that will make this game as great as all the others.

Stewart
AKA Prussian Prince :thumbsup:
Player of many Ageod Games : AACW, ROP, BOA2 and PON!

Beta Tester for EU2 and HOI3:thumbsup:

tagwyn
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Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:02 pm

+1 :thumbsup:

richfed
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Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:05 pm

I decided to go ahead and purchase now. Past experience with Ageod tells me it'll be worth the money.
[color="DarkRed"][SIZE="2"][font="Book Antiqua"]"We've caught them napping!"[/font][/size][/color]

d0mbo
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Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:57 am

I am wondering if the patch will be out today?

It's really getting to me i cant even process one turn :D

So you have one eagerly awaiting customer here.

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PhilThib
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Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:42 pm

Patch is anounced for tomorrow ;) :thumbsup:
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PhilThib
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Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:38 am

PhilThib wrote:Dear Purchasers of AGEOD’s WWI,

For those who do not already know me, my name is Philippe Thibaut, General Manager of AGEOD. I wish to make a brief announcement on behalf AGEOD regarding our just released title, WWI.

[color="DarkRed"]WW1: La Grande Guerre [/color] is an extremely ambitious game, based on a very rich and sophisticated set of rules. It was developed by a third-party team based in Italy. The engine is not same one which drives BOA, AACW, NCP, WIA, and ultimately VGN. WWI was produced with a vastly improved version of the same engine which was first used to develop the game, Great Invasions.

Some of you are experiencing various problems (freezes, CTDs, bugs, unclear rules, and/or a lack of adequate documentation). I am deeply sorry for these problems. However, I am absolutely certain that these problems will all be completely resolved to your ultimate satisfaction. Please accept my personal apologies for any inconvenience and disappointment. Luca Cammisa, head of the Italian team, is working around the clock to correct any and all issues. I have many years of experience working with Luca. He and his team are very talented, and I have full confidence in them.

The plan is to get out the first patch as quickly as possible to address stability and hardware compatibility issues. A second patch should follow in a few weeks which will address the most serious game play bugs. Beyond that, as there have always been for our games, there will be further patches until the game realizes its full and ultimate potential. Finally, we are aware that the initial game manual is inadequate and that providing a copy of the board game rules for download is no substitute. Concurrent with coding and testing, we are working on a complete and comprehensive manual.

AGEOD has always strived to be an ambitious industry leader when it comes to history oriented strategy/wargaming. Quite a few of our games have received awards and wide spread acclaim. Ambition has driven us to raise the bar with each new game. However, no company can continuously push the edge of the envelope without occasionally stumbling as has happened here. Modeling the “War to End All Wars” and one of the greatest conflicts of the last century was an epic undertaking. Despite some humbling initial problems, we assure you that AGEOD is up to the task. Ultimately, WWI will be no less of a masterpiece than any of our other titles.

We appreciate everyones’ understanding, patience, and loyal patronage. We have been as open and transparent as possible about this situation. However, we would never seek to impose on or exploit our customers’ good will. Therefore, we fully understand and accept that some of you might prefer not to wait until all remaining issues with WWI are addressed. So for those who are not satisfied with WWI as it now stands and prefer not to wait for patches, we are ready to reimburse your purchase price.

Please know that ultimately what AGEOD values most as a business is our reputation for quality and customer service along with happy customers who feel that they have received full value for their hard earned dollars or euros. Even if you should choose to return the game, we hope you will still consider yourself part of the AGEOD family. You will always be welcome here to discuss our products with us and guide us to realize games that are only bounded by your and our imaginations. Thank you.

Philippe Thibaut
General Manager, AGEOD
:love:



Dear Players,

The good work made by Calvinus recently and the various patches (1.04d latest) have solved almost all stability, freeze and HW issues. Gameplay elements are being treated in the current and next patches too.

Finally, the manual is proceeding and some sections are already available.

As a consequence, the AGEOD offer of refund (of those bought on our website) no longer apply as of December 1st, considering that the game has reached a point where major flaws are removed and that, given the market awareness, purchasers of the product are well aware of the game's content, qualities and drawbacks.

Thanks for your understanding

Philippe Thibaut
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Sheytan
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Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:41 pm

Although I was really disappointed in some of the flaws in WW1, I never contemplated accepting the refund offer for one reason, and one reason only. I know the game will be fixed. This is frankly a reflection of my confidence in AGEOD, a confidence I rarely grant to any game company.

The game itself covers a niche area I needed filled in my wargaming collection and once polished it will be a very nice game.

Keep up the good work!

NOTE-I have run the E patch for about a year now with no CTD, munitions production now appears to work properly as well!

davtonius
Civilian
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:18 pm

ww1 issue

Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:50 pm

I have had the game for only a week and am frustrated!! I love the gameplay,but it is freezing so much It is almost unplayable :confused: I downloaded 1.05 patch ,but it still locks up on me.I have brand new Quad-core with 4g of mem. Please help!!!

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dooya
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Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:43 pm

davtonius wrote:I have had the game for only a week and am frustrated!! I love the gameplay,but it is freezing so much It is almost unplayable :confused: I downloaded 1.05 patch ,but it still locks up on me.I have brand new Quad-core with 4g of mem. Please help!!!
You are using Vista, right? Sometimes Vista does not allow to patch correctly, i.e., the exe does not get updated during the application of the patch. Maybe you encounter the very same problem?

To solve this problem, please follow the instructions this thread: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=11621

and reapply the patch.
No quote - No bullshit!

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