Krasny
Private
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:01 pm

Sat Nov 15, 2008 12:55 pm

The map orientation is crazy. :bonk:

Having North to the left may make sense in purely technical terms, but is an esthetic abomination.

Every other game I can think of has North at the top. Including Great Invasions, All AGEOD titles and all Paradox titles.

The feat of pixel perfect dexterity required to merge units is crazy. :bonk:

And I've only got part of the way through Tutorial 2. WTF!

User avatar
Franciscus
Posts: 4571
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: Portugal

Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:23 pm

I have to agree that the map orientation was, at best, a bad decision...

More so because, as I understood it, the main reason was to optimize gaming performance. But anyway you see it, it´s hard to define this game performance as "optimized"... :wacko:

User avatar
Clovis
Posts: 3222
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:43 pm
Location: in a graveyard
Contact: Website

Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:37 pm

Let's go...

THis game is ready. No I'm not kidding. But:

- on some computers it doesn't work. On mine, the game runs smoothly. No lag, freeze, CTD. So this game suffers from a hardware compatibility, to be solved quickly, not from a broken engine. In a certain sense, it's a real good news.

- there's no detailed manual. Bad, very bad. I hope it will be solved too in the next weeks. But this game has 90% of the boardgame rules, which can be downloaded in this forum. And, even with a complete manual, this game will need time to master the gameplay because the gameplay is very detailed. So in any case, it's not the game which can be played without reading the rules.

And it's not the first game to be crticized for lack of documentation. Remember Guns of August?

Last it's the second good news. I largely prefer a working game lacking a good manual than the contrary because it can be more easily solved.

SO saying game is broken is just wrong.

The AI: the AI is selecting plans of war. The AI is doing diplomatic actions. The AI is moving armies the AI is fighting.

A broken game currently exists; it's named EIA. On the contrary, I bet this forum will be full of praise for WW1. The combination of a unforeseen hardware problem and the default of proper documentation isn't the real point. That's temporary hindrances. The real news is this engine is yet fully working...
[LEFT]Disabled
[CENTER][LEFT]
[/LEFT]
[LEFT]SVF news: http://struggleformodding.wordpress.com/

[/LEFT]
[/CENTER]



[/LEFT]

User avatar
lodilefty
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:27 pm
Location: Finger Lakes, NY GMT -5 US Eastern

Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:50 pm

Clovis wrote:Let's go...

THis game is ready. No I'm not kidding. But:

- on some computers it doesn't work. On mine, the game runs smoothly. No lag, freeze, CTD. So this game suffers from a hardware compatibility, to be solved quickly, not from a broken engine. In a certain sense, it's a real good news.

- there's no detailed manual. Bad, very bad. I hope it will be solved too in the next weeks. But this game has 90% of the boardgame rules, which can be downloaded in this forum. And, even with a complete manual, this game will need time to master the gameplay because the gameplay is very detailed. So in any case, it's not the game which can be played without reading the rules.

And it's not the first game to be crticized for lack of documentation. Remember Guns of August?

Last it's the second good news. I largely prefer a working game lacking a good manual than the contrary because it can be more easily solved.

SO saying game is broken is just wrong.

The AI: the AI is selecting plans of war. The AI is doing diplomatic actions. The AI is moving armies the AI is fighting.

A broken game currently exists; it's named EIA. On the contrary, I bet this forum will be full of praise for WW1. The combination of a unforeseen hardware problem and the default of ptoper documentation isn't the real point. That's temporary hindrances. The real news is this enfgine is yet fully working...


+1 :)
Always ask yourself: "Am I part of the Solution?" If you aren't, then you are part of the Problem!
[CENTER][/CENTER]
[CENTER]Visit AGEWiki - your increasingly comprehensive source for information about AGE games[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Rules for new members[/CENTER]
[CENTER]Forum Rules[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Help desk: support@slitherine.co.uk[/CENTER]

User avatar
DON
Sergeant
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:15 pm

Sat Nov 15, 2008 3:01 pm

If this were any company besides AGEOD I would be asking for my money back. However I have every game they have published and they have earned a lot of faith from me. I have no doubt they will fix the problems quickly. Additionally I think this game has a huge potential. I am an old wargaming grognard starting in the seventies and this game, even with its difficulties, is the best computer conversion of a monster board wargame that I have yet seen.

Hang in there. In the words of Brigadier General Hugh Elles before the battle of Cambrai: Through the blood and the mud to the green fields beyond!

rwenstrup
Sergeant
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:10 am
Location: Cleveland, OH USA

Perspective

Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:01 pm

AGEOD is a great company and I know we will end up enjoying an excellent game.

One thought...I have gotten a couple of board game conversions...and having designed some and own a couple of hundred board and computer games and I do have one observation...

When you port a board game to the computer, you move from one market to another in customers.

When computer games first came out I had a real problem getting into them...partially because of the terrible AI of the time...but also because of the restricted view and horrible operator interaction required.

As the years have gone by, these things have been fixed to a point...but I've also had to adjust my view of a game to the practical limitations and advantages of a computer.

...so what does that mean? I think when you port a board game to a computer you need to do more than 'automate' the die roles, etc. To meet the expectations of computer game players, you have to streamline the gameplay to the capabilities and limitations of the computer. People just don't read 100 page rule books like they used to...

Having said that...I think this game has all the markings of a real classic wargame...a fact that has been very painful with the current problems. But if this great team that is AGEOD decides to work this issue like they have done some others, I think this game will the the beginning of a new level of computer play...and my bets on AGEOD...

User avatar
sval06
Captain
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:46 pm

Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:44 pm

rwenstrup wrote:.... just don't read 100 page rule books like they used to...



Right, they read much more if they play WITP (likeI did ;) ) :D

mi1291
Private
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:01 am

Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:08 pm

sval06 wrote:Right, they read much more if they play WITP (likeI did ;) ) :D


I know this situation... And after you read more than 100 pages of rules' books you start to read al least 1 or 2 players' guides...
:mdr: :mdr:

I Think too In this game there is a great amount of innovation and is a bet.

Go ageod, go....

alexander seil
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:22 pm

Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:03 pm

I'm not surprised and don't see why anyone else is. The game is coded by the same person who made Great Invasions, so, basically, it's BRILLIANT but terribly buggy. Buyer beware. I intend to get the game once I'm through with Fallout 3.

Also, same situation with documentation. Great Invasions barely had any, you had to figure it out on your own (and, once you do, thoroughly enjoy the game).

User avatar
Clovis
Posts: 3222
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:43 pm
Location: in a graveyard
Contact: Website

Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:49 pm

alexander seil wrote:I'm not surprised and don't see why anyone else is. The game is coded by the same person who made Great Invasions, so, basically, it's BRILLIANT but terribly buggy. Buyer beware. I intend to get the game once I'm through with Fallout 3.

Also, same situation with documentation. Great Invasions barely had any, you had to figure it out on your own (and, once you do, thoroughly enjoy the game).


Great invasions was much less buggy than Pax Romana, that wan't made by Calvinus. Is Great Invasions bugged today?If no, so Clavinus has at last made Pax Romana engine playable.
[LEFT]Disabled

[CENTER][LEFT]

[/LEFT]

[LEFT]SVF news: http://struggleformodding.wordpress.com/



[/LEFT]

[/CENTER]







[/LEFT]

Big Muddy

Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:01 pm

for those that fell the game isn't ready you should have waited a bit before purchase, why expect anything more . i expected problems but got it anyway to support ageod. i'm not worried and nether should you. check out other new games (forums) and you see the same thing, except without the great support such as ageod's.

alexander seil
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:22 pm

Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:10 am

Clovis wrote:Great invasions was much less buggy than Pax Romana, that wan't made by Calvinus. Is Great Invasions bugged today?If no, so Clavinus has at last made Pax Romana engine playable.


Great Invasions is still pretty buggy. You can look up my posts on the forum for some homemade fixes, but it's a huge game and if it's done by just 1 man, weird stuff will slip by. That's just the way it works. No big surprises. I'm sure, in any case, that the *technical* glitches will be worked out soon.

User avatar
Clovis
Posts: 3222
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:43 pm
Location: in a graveyard
Contact: Website

Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:12 am

Got my first lock during a naval battle ( bug fixed in the upcoming 1.04)

The naval battle opposed German and Japanese fleets in New Guinea. Naval battles are fun and detailed. Ships are of several sorts (old battlecruisers, destroyers, battleline ships). You have to choose between several tactical formations, admirals have detailed values...

My last try at the Great campaign has given a very interesting situation. On the Entente side, I took the historical plans, but Germany invaded Switzerland, Austria-Hungary concentrated against Russia...and Italia joined on the first turn Central Powers, pushing an army into French Alps and another against Swiss...As results, UK is yet neutral but thanks to the use of ambassadors USA is closer to Entente. Japan sided with me too. And Germany has lost her pre-turn move, giving me time to redeploy my Fifth army on Switzerland frontier.

The economical and research games are very rich. You have to pay for munitions, the choice to build troops faster at higher cost, several technological options with random results.

Events are very useful. I just played a espionage chit on the Western Front giving me full knowledge of enemy forces.

Political options are very numerous too.
[LEFT]Disabled

[CENTER][LEFT]

[/LEFT]

[LEFT]SVF news: http://struggleformodding.wordpress.com/



[/LEFT]

[/CENTER]







[/LEFT]

alexander seil
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:22 pm

Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:18 am

Japan vs. Germany in the Pacific? You sold me the game right there :p

User avatar
Clovis
Posts: 3222
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:43 pm
Location: in a graveyard
Contact: Website

Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:26 am

alexander seil wrote:Great Invasions is still pretty buggy. You can look up my posts on the forum for some homemade fixes, but it's a huge game and if it's done by just 1 man, weird stuff will slip by. That's just the way it works. No big surprises. I'm sure, in any case, that the *technical* glitches will be worked out soon.


Most of the remaining "bugs" seems to be errors in the event scripts. They remain mainly because nobody has officially fixed them, which can be done with a notepad, without any programmation work. Then the event scripting language of GI isn't the best I've seen, to say it smoothly ( uneasy, largely undocumented, incomplete, only partially adaped to the game engine). I did what I can with but it was painful.

AS much I Know,there are no mre CTD. assimilation rate is yet maybe too strong but that's more a gameplay problem than a real bug.

And the WW1 engine would be great for a TBS GI2 : turn of 5 years with military operations impulse of 3 months in WEGO mode...
[LEFT]Disabled

[CENTER][LEFT]

[/LEFT]

[LEFT]SVF news: http://struggleformodding.wordpress.com/



[/LEFT]

[/CENTER]







[/LEFT]

jpwagner
Conscript
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:57 am

Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:53 am

What omnipotent "Being" decreed that North must always be facing up? ;)

Elmo
Captain
Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:20 pm

Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:41 am

jpwagner wrote:What omnipotent "Being" decreed that North must always be facing up? ;)


Every human "being" since maps started being made except for Calvinus. :neener:

User avatar
lodilefty
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:27 pm
Location: Finger Lakes, NY GMT -5 US Eastern

Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:45 am

Elmo wrote:Every human "being" since maps started being made except for Clovis. :neener:


and Polar projections? What is 'up' for Antarctica? :wacko:
Always ask yourself: "Am I part of the Solution?" If you aren't, then you are part of the Problem!
[CENTER][/CENTER]

[CENTER]Visit AGEWiki - your increasingly comprehensive source for information about AGE games[/CENTER]



[CENTER]Rules for new members[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Forum Rules[/CENTER]



[CENTER]Help desk: support@slitherine.co.uk[/CENTER]

User avatar
Franciscus
Posts: 4571
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: Portugal

Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:17 am

lodilefty wrote:and Polar projections? What is 'up' for Antarctica? :wacko:

OK. Then why don't you make a mod for WIA with the northern american states to the left of the map ?

And just for having some consistency, I propose that the maps for the next AGEOD games (RoP and VGN) also be drawn with North to the left...

:mdr: :wacko: :bonk:

User avatar
Duckman
Sergeant
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:16 am

Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:57 am

PhilThib wrote:The issue is what we have to do in priority... fixing the code glitches and improving documentation and gameplay is first and foremost and will takes all our time in the next months.

Reworking the map is a huge task, cumbersome, long, increasing heavily the weight of the game (those who have knowledge of graphics will know why) and for a very limited immediate benefit...

We'll probably make a try at this, but surely not now...be patient please.


obviously it is not a priority. what i dont understand though is the system that ageod games use. instead of tiles, you have this HUGE bmp file (at least in the older games if memory serves me right). i dont think that is an ideal solution performance wise. processing such gigantic gfx file is burdening the system whereas the map itself is not exactly a piece of art (im judging from the screenshots). by (in the next title) instead of using 1 huge file, your game would use tiles, the requirements could be dropped drastically. as well as the fact that changing the rotation of the map right now obviously requires enormous time investment. i suppose changing all the hex locations takes forever. obviously im not a programmer at ageod so i dont know how exactly you guys do things, so im just guestimating here.

User avatar
Duckman
Sergeant
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:16 am

Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:12 am

jpwagner wrote:What omnipotent "Being" decreed that North must always be facing up? ;)


dont worry, ill buy the game (once is smoothed out) even if north is facing left. but it did really give me pause. would people object if north was facing upwards? no. do they object when its facing left? yes. for someone who might not be familiar with Ageod and just looks at the screens, the facing might convince them not to purchase the game.

the problem is not that the map makes more sense performance wise this way. its that the map is even a drain on the memory of the computer. medieval:kingdoms and halflife2 run smoothly on my computer (with 1gb ram) but i need to upgrade in order to even play a buggy and undocumented release with subpar gfx? BECAUSE of the graphics (or rather the way they are handled)? no thanks.

sorry for sounding bitter, but i myself was looking very muich forward to playing this baby around xmas time, since i too am a big fan of ww1 history. oh well, i'll just wait a few months ;)

User avatar
arsan
Posts: 6244
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:35 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:31 am

Using tiles would make for an ugly and boring map without the hand drawn artistic feel of AGEOD games. :coeurs:
I agree in that WW1 is not as good looking as previous games maps. But still its much better than a tiled set map.
About the map orientation, i think it would have been better to do it the standard way from sales point of view.
But really, once you start playing the game you get accustomed to it after 30 minutes and moving around gets perfectly natural, like moving around a computer generated Civilization kind of map. IMHO its no problem at all to game play... although it can be a problem sales wise.

Regards

User avatar
Franciscus
Posts: 4571
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: Portugal

Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:35 am

My dear Arsan. What you are saying is a great truth - human beings have a great capability to adapt to adverse conditions. I just do not think that we should be "forced" to use it so much for playing PC games... :D

User avatar
arsan
Posts: 6244
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:35 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:49 am

Franciscus wrote:My dear Arsan. What you are saying is a great truth - human beings have a great capability to adapt to adverse conditions. I just do not think that we should be "forced" to use it so much for playing PC games... :D


Franciscus, for Europeans like us i can assure you it was 10 times harder to learn to differentiate Kentucky from Tennesse and the Ohio river from the Cumberland one in AACW ;)
I still got lost sometimes... :neener:

ird
Sergeant
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: Scunthorpe, England

Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:19 pm

Absolutely - in ACW and BOA I sometimes spend longer looking for the location of strategic cities than I do planning my turns!!!!! :bonk:

Although I'm not criticising AGEOD for my poor geography :wacko:

User avatar
Franciscus
Posts: 4571
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: Portugal

Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:55 pm

arsan wrote:Franciscus, for Europeans like us i can assure you it was 10 times harder to learn to differentiate Kentucky from Tennesse and the Ohio river from the Cumberland one in AACW ;)
I still got lost sometimes... :neener:


You have a point. Nevertheless it helped to know at least that the Southern states were in the...south side of the map... :neener:

Now, imagine for a minute an american playing WW1 trying to find Berlin and finding that it is to the "south" of Russia... :wacko:

But I know that this is a pointless discussion, as the map is not changeable. But AGEOD faces an uphill struggle with WW1 after this botched release. It is unfortunate that reviewers and disgruntled players (with CTD, freezes, clunky interface, lack of single-nation GC :( =), also have to contend with the map (dis)orientation... :wacko:

User avatar
soundoff
AGEod Veteran
Posts: 774
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:23 am

Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:26 pm

Franciscus wrote:You have a point. Nevertheless it helped to know at least that the Southern states were in the...south side of the map... :neener:

Now, imagine for a minute an american playing WW1 trying to find Berlin and finding that it is to the "south" of Russia... :wacko:

But I know that this is a pointless discussion, as the map is not changeable. But AGEOD faces an uphill struggle with WW1 after this botched release. It is unfortunate that reviewers and disgruntled players (with CTD, freezes, clunky interface, lack of single-nation GC :( =), also have to contend with the map (dis)orientation... :wacko:


+1

I really really was looking forward to purchasing this game. Mightly glad I did not purchase in advance now. Another game I'd have to learn 'on the fly' because of poor documentation. Thanks but no thanks. Have done it once with ACW (after coming to the game late and finding that the manual was well out of date). Not again though.

As for north not being north....however easy it might be to get used to its just daft....plain daft.

Ah well perhaps VGN will prise me away from my money.....I do hope so. Mind you I'll be even more circumspect before I do. I certainly won't believe the 'hype'. ;)

User avatar
Sol Invictus
Posts: 825
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:32 am
Location: Kentucky

Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:34 pm

arsan wrote:Franciscus, for Europeans like us i can assure you it was 10 times harder to learn to differentiate Kentucky from Tennesse and the Ohio river from the Cumberland one in AACW ;)
I still got lost sometimes... :neener:



Bite your tongue sir! Every right thinking and civilized person fairly well knows that Kentucky produces better whiskey than Tennesse. :thumbsup:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

"The fruit of too much liberty is slavery", Cicero

User avatar
PDF
Posts: 548
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:39 am

Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:37 pm

Soundoff
Be reassured, VGN will use the polished AGE engine of BoA-AACW-NCP-WIA, and North will be upside up :D !

User avatar
W.Barksdale
AGEod Grognard
Posts: 915
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:17 pm
Location: UK

Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:23 pm

soundoff wrote:As for north not being north....however easy it might be to get used to its just daft....plain daft.


+1

:bonk:
"Tell General Lee that if he wants a bridge of dead Yankees I can furnish him with one."
-General William Barksdale at Fredericksburg

Return to “WW1 : La Grande Guerre 14-18”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests