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Korrigan
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Feature #1: What would your strategy have been?

Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:53 am

[CENTER][ATTACH]3921[/ATTACH][/CENTER]


[SIZE="6"][CENTER]WW1 : What would your strategy have been?[/CENTER][/size]


In AGEOD’s next grand strategy game, “World War One: La Grande Guerre 14-18”, players will be able to choose between different initial war plans, with decisive effects on the conflict.


For example, the German player will have FIVE possible choices:


  • Plan Schlieffen: The historical plan with a massive sneak attack though neutral Belgium and a chance for knocking out France early on. Your army is thoroughly prepared; will you be able to do better than the historical stalemate?

  • Plan Hindenburg (half-Schlieffen): This plan reduces your exposure to the deadly Allies counter-attack by affecting more armies to defend your homeland and preventing an early advance by the russian troops. Will you be able to hold two fronts?

  • Plan Moltke: Here, Russia must be dealt with first with only a fair concentration of forces defending the French border and your best armies headed toward the heart of Europe's sick old man. In the vast eastern plains, will you be able to defeat General Winter in time and then launch your full forces against the just mobilizing western Allies?

  • Plan Rupprecht (Reversed Schlieffen): Your opponent is waiting for you in Belgium? Why not invade France by a sneak attack through neutral Switzerland! Complete surprise and total victory is expected if you can overrun the Swiss mountainous defence quickly enough.

  • Plan Kronprinz: Why bother with fancy new plans? Just take the good old 1870 plan, it worked fine for Bismarck! Unleash the wrath of your superior army on the French defence in a frontal and decisive assault before the British Expeditionnary Force can even land on the continent!!!


In a poker-like phase, each player will secretly pick his plan and his armies will then position themselves accordingly. Each plan will also influence national morale, the number of wild cards available, and the fighting readiness of the troops. So you’ll have to choose carefully.




[CENTER][SIZE="5"]"Sir, it is now time for YOU to get prepared for the grandest war ever known by mankind.

The fate of millions of troops relies on your orders…


What is YOUR strategy?"[/size]



[ATTACH]3922[/ATTACH]




Quelle aurait été votre stratégie?[/CENTER]

Dans "World War One: La Grande Guerre 14-18", le prochain jeu d'AGEOD, chaque joueur aura initiallement à choisir entre différents plans de guerre avec des conséquences importantes sur le déroulement du conflit.

Ainsi, le joueur allemand aura cinq choix possibles:

  • Plan Schlieffen: C'est le plan historique. Il prévoit une attaque surprise à travers la Belgique afin d'essayer de terrasser la France précocément. Votre armée est prête, serez-vous capable de bien mieux que le sanglant match nul dans les Flandres et en Picardie?
  • Plan Hindenburg (half-Schlieffen): Ce plan protége mieux votre flanc face à la contre-attaque alliée. Quelques armées supplémentaires sont affectées à la défense de votre territoire. Mais votre offensive risque d'en être affaiblie et ralentie, serez-vous capable de tenir deux fronts simultanément?
  • Plan Moltke: Ce plan prévoit d'essayer d'abord d'abattre la Russie. Seules quelques armées sont laissées à l'Ouest pour contenir les Français pendant que vos meilleurs troupes doivent abattre l'Empire russe décadent. Serez-vous capable de provoquer l'effondrement des troupes tsaristes suffisament vite pour lancer ensuite votre armée sur les Alliés avant qu'ils n'aient fini de se mobiliser?
  • Plan Rupprecht (Schlieffen inversé): Un plan fou et audacieux pour surprendre votre adversaire. Pourquoi ne pas tenter de contourner la défense française au sud en passant par la Suisse? Les forteresses montagneuses helvètes sont redoutables mais si vous arrivez à les passer suffisament rapidement la victoire vous tend les bras!
  • Plan Kronprinz: Pourquoi risquer l'innovation stratégique? En 1870, l'attaque frontale de votre armée avait culbuté l'armée de Napoléon III. Lancer vos troupes supérieurement armées à la gorge de votre adversaire sans lui laisser le temps de respirer! La victoire sera à vous avant même les troupes britanniques aient pu débarquer...



Cette phase nécessite bluff et audace. Chaque joueur choisit secrétement son plan de guerre qui conditionnera alors le positionnement de ses armées, mais influencera également son moral national, son nombre de stratagémes, le niveau de préparation de ses troupes, etc. Chaque choix doit donc être pesé.


[CENTER]Général, il est maintenant temps de vous préparer pour la guerre la plus terrible jamais connue par l'humanité.

Le sort de milions de soldats repose sur vos épaules.

Quelle est votre stratégie?[/CENTER]
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Korrigan
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:56 am

Here is a very good summary by Arthur Banks of the historical german plans evolution as the Great War was getting closer :




[CENTER][attach]3923[/attach][/CENTER]


Thanks to Nikel for signaling it to us.
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"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." Mark Twain



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Chris Stavros
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:07 am

Mine is obvious, don't attack Belgium, that brings Great britain into the war.

Without the British the french cannot defeat Imperial Germany, and teh germans could have possibly made a truce with France late in 1914 (after the French attacks into Alsace and lorraine fail) for a halt to hostilities.

It might also have been possible to make a similar deal with the Czar as the germans would have made great penitrations into Belarus and possible Ukrane if their entire offensive effort was in the east and the only western front was Alsace & Lorraine.

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Drakken
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:27 am

Chris Stavros wrote:Mine is obvious, don't attack Belgium, that brings Great britain into the war.

Without the British the french cannot defeat Imperial Germany, and teh germans could have possibly made a truce with France late in 1914 (after the French attacks into Alsace and lorraine fail) for a halt to hostilities.


Belgium invasion is not a prerequisite for British intervention in LGG.

In diplomatic turns the French player may still try to have the British enter the war, even without invasion of Belgium. It is only a matter of time.

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Carnium
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:29 am

Nice choices :coeurs:
Will other nations have any special "doctrines" to use too ?
Like for Austria-Hungary in 1914 :
- deal with Serbia first (leave Russian front vulnerable)
- leave Serbia for later and help the Germans deal with Russians (especially if they choose Plan Moltke )
- go on defensive on all fronts and leave Germans do all offensive.

One extra question. Will you be able to ask your allies for help and organize joint operations like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Caporetto :sourcil:


p.s.
Are the German plans taken from the book A Military Atlas Of The First World War - Arthur Banks or A world Atlas of Military History-Vol 1- Arthur Banks ?
I must get this book :niark:

Jojo le Gouffy
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:24 am

deux remarques.
a) parler du Europe's sick old man à propos de la Russie m'a surpris parce que j'ai toujours considéré que l'expression désignait l'Empire Ottoman.
b) la cinquième proposition me semble étrange parce que les frontières de 1914 ne sont plus celles de 1870 puisque justement la Prusse avait gagné la guerre.

Par ailleurs, il me semble que John Keegan dans La Première Guerre Mondiale Tempus n° 108 signale que le conflit s'est enlisé à cause de cet entêtement dans le kriegspiel (mais le mérite du jeu est d'en retenir toutes les hypothèses ) qui exigeait qu'on l'appliquât à la lettre (ce que ne firent pas les Allemands)...et par le fait que rien n'avait été prévu en cas d'échec.

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arsan
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:52 am

Carnium wrote:A Military Atlas Of The First World War - Arthur Banks


From that one i think :cwboy:

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PhilThib
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:18 am

Carnium wrote:Nice choices :coeurs:
Will other nations have any special "doctrines" to use too ?
Like for Austria-Hungary in 1914 :
- deal with Serbia first (leave Russian front vulnerable)
- leave Serbia for later and help the Germans deal with Russians (especially if they choose Plan Moltke )
- go on defensive on all fronts and leave Germans do all offensive.

One extra question. Will you be able to ask your allies for help and organize joint operations like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Caporetto :sourcil:


Yes, the initial Warplans are for the 4 major powers active begining of August (France, Russia, Germany and Austria-Hungary). All of them have [color="royalblue"]5[/color] potential choices... :coeurs:

Joint operations are possible (with a limited number of specific armies): it must first undergo the political and diplomatic authorizations and agreements firts...in the political aspect of the game (more on that later :sourcil: )


[color="RoyalBlue"]Edited by Korrigan: Number of available war plans[/color]
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dooya
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:22 am

PhilThib wrote:Yes, the initial Warplans are for the 4 major powers active begining of August (France, Russia, Germany and Austria-Hungary). All of them have 4 potential choices... :coeurs:

[...]
There are 5 choices listed for Germany in the announcement... :siffle:
No quote - No bullshit!

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Korrigan
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:32 am

Philippe Thibaut meant "4 alternatives to the historical war plan" but you're right, it was not clear enough so I edited his post.

The four initial major fighting powers have all FIVE war plans available. As a rule, their armies and headquarters are better prepared for the historical war plan. Hence, if you choose to surprise your opponent by changing your nation war plan, you'll get less combat bonuses (just like Molkte did by modifying the first Schlieffen plan). Tricky choice...

Cheers,

Korrigan
"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." Mark Twain



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Palpat
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:39 am

No "Belgium AND Holland" strategy? Would be great to size some ressources in Low countries. :sourcil:

By the way, I disagree with the "France can't defeat the German alone". That's proved wrong. British participation before the Marne wasn't that decisive. After, their position on some parts of the front helped, indeed, save men.
Franc couldn't have won alone, but isn't doomed to defeat alone either. Stalemate is the most probable thing.
A 1870-like offensive through eastern France would have to deal with the heavy fortifications and the geography there. Enough to stall the German for years. If the German did progress the way they did in northern France, that was because of surprise and because of French staff blindness.

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Duckman
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:42 am

what would AH plans be? there are 2 historical:

1. attack serbia first and defend against Russia with only half the army

2. focus on Russia and dedicate only a smaller portion of the troops against Serbia

3.,4,5 a variaton of the above?

to make it ever more accurate :niark: the player should select one plan, but then 2 weeks into it Conrad should change his mind, panic and select a random other plan

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PhilThib
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:45 am

All these points are in the game, no worry :sourcil:

Remember the game is adapted from LGG boardgame which had all these features :innocent:
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Carnium
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:42 am

PhilThib wrote:All these points are in the game, no worry :sourcil:

Remember the game is adapted from LGG boardgame which had all these features :innocent:


Excellent.
Will you be able to see what choices your allies made before deciding for your own ?

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ulysses
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:00 pm

Duckman wrote:...the player should select one plan, but then 2 weeks into it Conrad should change his mind, panic and select a random other plan


PhilThib wrote:All these points are in the game, no worry :sourcil: ...


Hehe. :innocent:

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Tamas
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:36 pm

Duckman wrote:what would AH plans be? there are 2 historical:

1. attack serbia first and defend against Russia with only half the army

2. focus on Russia and dedicate only a smaller portion of the troops against Serbia

3.,4,5 a variaton of the above?

to make it ever more accurate :niark: the player should select one plan, but then 2 weeks into it Conrad should change his mind, panic and select a random other plan



I once played the Centrals in the boardgame (via e-mail), and I decided to follow the "Serbia first" warplan for Austria - my 2nd Army deployed against the Serbs. But then I saw the Russian advance, chickened out, and railroaded that army to the East. :niark:

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Sol Invictus
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Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:37 pm

Duckman wrote:what would AH plans be? there are 2 historical:

1. attack serbia first and defend against Russia with only half the army

2. focus on Russia and dedicate only a smaller portion of the troops against Serbia

3.,4,5 a variaton of the above?

to make it ever more accurate :niark: the player should select one plan, but then 2 weeks into it Conrad should change his mind, panic and select a random other plan


Good one Duckman. Poor old Conrad never seems to get any respect; for good reason. :tournepas
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Adlertag
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Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:35 pm

I'm a bit confused with "plan Hindenburg" as an initial plan because of the late appointment of Hindenburg as C&C (August 1916).

Also, translation from English to French (or the reverse) isn't very accurate because we see no mention of possible Russian advance into French version but rather "more armies affected to homeland defense"...
La mort est un mur, mourir est une brèche.

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pailleterie
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French invades Belgium

Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:32 pm

Is there a French attack to Bellgium option?.

If the german player decide attack first Russia or Switzerland could be a great victory for France with the French frontier german army isolated and south Germany invaded for the french troops.

If the German attack Belgium a big battle will be fought in Belgium and not near Paris.

The question is: if the french atteck Belgium can the British join to the Central Powers or they will be neutrals?

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PhilThib
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Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:44 pm

France can attack Belgium indeed...doing so would nevertheless postpone British entry to the war extremely late...(although they would probably not become CP) :king:
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pailleterie
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Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:13 pm

Good news :coeurs:

tagwyn
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Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:17 pm

A-H plan: Bend Over and Kiss It Good-bye!! BOKIG Plan!! :p apy:

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pailleterie
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Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:26 am

when will be have a new feature?

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PhilThib
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Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:33 am

In a few days, Korrigan is handling it but has recently moved to a new location and is temporarily disconnected ;)
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Palpat
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Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:18 pm

Yeah! We want features!

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Korrigan
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Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:49 pm

Writing a petition to France Telecom for speeding up ADSL connection would a good move. :)

Next feature should be posted monday :coeurs:
"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." Mark Twain



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