Until now the discussions on this forum have been overshadowed by many bug issues, obscuring the fact that this game is a potential gem that should become a classic with the hard-core boardgamers. Gradually I am being dragged into it and I love it!
Having now played for a few days with the 1.04g patch that seems to offer stability (although many issues still have to be resolved - I'll post some later!), I feel it is time to start discussing content rather than bugs - 'how to', strategy, operations and tactics rather than bugs, CTDs and freezes.
First question. Playing the CPs, with the Schlieffen-plan for the Germans and the Koenig-plan for AH, I find it very difficult to replicate the historical rapid advance through Belgium into Northern France. I get stuck with the Belgian frotresses, Liege and Antwerp, as well as in front of Bruxelles and its only October when I confront a 4 corps BEF near Arras.
Any suggestions about how to accelerate my advance through Belgium?
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Kaiser1918
- Corporal
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:04 am
- Location: Singapore
Funny
I had thought that nobody ever played LGG the boardgame to the bitter end since it seemed such a monster. There are people out there who tried and some even managed to play it. However, as with all such monster games, to find all possible permutations and turn the game into a balanced one is a monstrous task.
So, to your question. I expect the first strategies to pop up as soon as the most blatant errors are finally squashed...I find the siege of Liege particularly difficult to achieve as historically, it was Ludendorff's walkover that permitted the German forces to advance as rapidly as they did. Let's wait for the next patch which hopefully brings a better explanation for the combat results.
So, to your question. I expect the first strategies to pop up as soon as the most blatant errors are finally squashed...I find the siege of Liege particularly difficult to achieve as historically, it was Ludendorff's walkover that permitted the German forces to advance as rapidly as they did. Let's wait for the next patch which hopefully brings a better explanation for the combat results.
I think I read something about the Belgian forts in another thread maybe a week ago and one player suggested that you just leave a small force behind to besiege the forts and move on with the the main force. I would also suggest putting more artillery in the force you use to besiege the forts as that would speed up the fort reducing, well I assume it would speed it up at least.
@Rafiki: It is maybe time to put up a strategy sub forum for this game.
@Rafiki: It is maybe time to put up a strategy sub forum for this game.
"Saw steamer, strafed same, sank same, some sight, signed smith" From "The Thousand Mile War" by Brian Garfield.
Well, maybe I remember wrong, but I think in game terms what happened historically was that the arty firing only reduced the Liege forts, and Luddendorf ordered an assault - something you can do in game, but would be very bloody. If you can't bombard Liege to dust in the first turn, just leave behind a single corps and the austrian artillery. Altough personally, I usually leave behinf that entire 2nd army stack with the Austrian guns, using the other stack of the 2nd army for initial railroad converting.
But I must tell you that I suck with the Schlieffen Plan.
What I can offer as advice, is to cover your flanks, so at the last minute you are not forced to manouver against enemy supply-cutting actions.
All in all, if I go with Schlieffen, and manage to get most of Belgium and a couple of french cities, I am happy.
But I must tell you that I suck with the Schlieffen Plan.
What I can offer as advice, is to cover your flanks, so at the last minute you are not forced to manouver against enemy supply-cutting actions.
All in all, if I go with Schlieffen, and manage to get most of Belgium and a couple of french cities, I am happy.
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dougbush93
- Captain
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:19 am
- Location: Arlington, Virginia
Making Schieflen-plan progress through Belgium is possible, just tricky.
Early August
First, detach at most 1 corps from GE I Army to put Antwerp under siege (a 454 corps should do it), and have the rest of GE I Army bypass Antwerp to the southeast, cutting between Antwerp and Brussels. I usually detach the 2 Cavalry corps in GE I Army to move along the coast and guard that flank. My target for the end of August for GE I Army is Lille, or the space adjacent to the north.
Second, GE II Army can move directly to Liege. You have a good chance of destroying the fort with your first artillery firing at the end of early August. Another option is to create a "siege detachment" with 1 corps + the 2 siege guns, and try to move the rest of GE II Army past Liege to the south. The detachment from GE II Army that starts the game in Germany should convert the rail line in the area just East of Liege and stay there. That rail line will be critical for supply in September and October. GE II Army is going to fall behind GE I and III a bit b/c of Liege. Don't worry about it.
Third, I move GE III Army directly to Namur, where they will usually fight a battle with 1 Belgian Corps. Set your reserves to breakthrough into Brussels, and there is a decent chance they can grab Brussels in early August.
August
GE I Army should attack into Lille. It is not a fort, so you will likely win a battle there with the British. Have your reserves set to breakthrough to the south toward Paris. The BEF tends to fight only a couple rounds and retreat, so having the reserves set to pursue is critical. In WEGO mode you have to do that at the start of the battle, before any battle rounds engage.
GE II Army has 2 courses of action: if Liege has already fallen, continue moving them south, but first drop off a detachment of the German siege arty so it can move to Antwerp to help blast the fort in October (it will take 2 turns to get there). The rest of GE II Army can move along the rail line directly south toward Sedan. The separate detachment must now convert the rail into Liege. If you can, create another detachment to convert the rail line in the area directly south of Liege. COA 2 is to leave a siege detachment in Liege with the siege guns and move the rest of the Army south.
GE III Army attacks south / southwest from Brussels, dropping off 1 corps to invest Maubuege, with the rest of the Army covering GE I Army's left flank. Their objective in September can be Reims. Note that now the order of march from West to East is: GE I / GE III / GE II, with GE II and GE III having switched.
From here, you have to decide what your goal is. If Paris is the target, send all three armies at it in September / October. Forget the flanks. If you goal is to set a solid, semi-historic line and hold it, make sure you grab both Lille and Reims (both are munitions production sites). If somehow possible, Dunkirk is a good place to anchor the line, but the Ypres area might be more feasible. If you really want to follow the historic situation, have GE I Army turn "left" just before they get to Paris and fight it out with the French east of Paris. It might work.
Some key issues:
1. Supply. Remember that supply trace is an HQ can reach back 2 spaces to a converted rail line, then throw 2 hexes away to another HQ, which can then throw supply 2 more spaces (the "middle" HQ is a "supply relay"). So, the max # of areas from a converted rail line is 6 areas (2 back, 2 out, 2 out). In addition to the rail line that runs into Liege and then south, if a GE IV Army detachment can move along the rail line from Luxembourg toward Sedan, that rail line can provide a supply connection for your "left wing" armies as well. One thing I have noticed in computer LGG is that a) you can't move and convert more than one space at a time, which is slower than the boardgame, and b) you have to move into a space to convert its rail line, so a stationary element can't convert a line where it is (very annoying, needs to be fixed in a later patch).
2. Siege Arty. Dragging these guys along will really slow down GE II Army if you let it. As soon as you can, detach the siege guns from the GE II Army HQ. I usually send the German siege gun to Antwerp to end that siege before the end of the year, and I usually end up using the other one to reduce Maubuege. Of course, the Austrian siege gun would do the trick at Paris a well
3. The French. The enemy "gets a vote" as they say, so the war plan the French adopt will heavily influence your ability to get a "historic" outcome. If the French go with Plan XVII, it reduces what they can detach and send back West to defend Paris. If they pick one of the other plans you may run into a very strong FR V Army and elements of FR I and II as well + the forming FR VI Army in Paris itself.
4. The Brits. I've played about 10 early August to October CG start ups (as the game has been patched / improved), and I've yet to see the Brits in Mons in force. Sometimes 1 corps is there at the most, with the main BEF force closer to Lille or the coast. In real life I guess the Brits had really good dice. I usually don't have trouble brushing the BEF aside with GE I and GE III both attacking it. German goal should be to push them toward the coast and screen them so they can't stay shoulder to shoulder with the French.
Hope this helps a bit. Enjoy the game!
Doug
Early August
First, detach at most 1 corps from GE I Army to put Antwerp under siege (a 454 corps should do it), and have the rest of GE I Army bypass Antwerp to the southeast, cutting between Antwerp and Brussels. I usually detach the 2 Cavalry corps in GE I Army to move along the coast and guard that flank. My target for the end of August for GE I Army is Lille, or the space adjacent to the north.
Second, GE II Army can move directly to Liege. You have a good chance of destroying the fort with your first artillery firing at the end of early August. Another option is to create a "siege detachment" with 1 corps + the 2 siege guns, and try to move the rest of GE II Army past Liege to the south. The detachment from GE II Army that starts the game in Germany should convert the rail line in the area just East of Liege and stay there. That rail line will be critical for supply in September and October. GE II Army is going to fall behind GE I and III a bit b/c of Liege. Don't worry about it.
Third, I move GE III Army directly to Namur, where they will usually fight a battle with 1 Belgian Corps. Set your reserves to breakthrough into Brussels, and there is a decent chance they can grab Brussels in early August.
August
GE I Army should attack into Lille. It is not a fort, so you will likely win a battle there with the British. Have your reserves set to breakthrough to the south toward Paris. The BEF tends to fight only a couple rounds and retreat, so having the reserves set to pursue is critical. In WEGO mode you have to do that at the start of the battle, before any battle rounds engage.
GE II Army has 2 courses of action: if Liege has already fallen, continue moving them south, but first drop off a detachment of the German siege arty so it can move to Antwerp to help blast the fort in October (it will take 2 turns to get there). The rest of GE II Army can move along the rail line directly south toward Sedan. The separate detachment must now convert the rail into Liege. If you can, create another detachment to convert the rail line in the area directly south of Liege. COA 2 is to leave a siege detachment in Liege with the siege guns and move the rest of the Army south.
GE III Army attacks south / southwest from Brussels, dropping off 1 corps to invest Maubuege, with the rest of the Army covering GE I Army's left flank. Their objective in September can be Reims. Note that now the order of march from West to East is: GE I / GE III / GE II, with GE II and GE III having switched.
From here, you have to decide what your goal is. If Paris is the target, send all three armies at it in September / October. Forget the flanks. If you goal is to set a solid, semi-historic line and hold it, make sure you grab both Lille and Reims (both are munitions production sites). If somehow possible, Dunkirk is a good place to anchor the line, but the Ypres area might be more feasible. If you really want to follow the historic situation, have GE I Army turn "left" just before they get to Paris and fight it out with the French east of Paris. It might work.
Some key issues:
1. Supply. Remember that supply trace is an HQ can reach back 2 spaces to a converted rail line, then throw 2 hexes away to another HQ, which can then throw supply 2 more spaces (the "middle" HQ is a "supply relay"). So, the max # of areas from a converted rail line is 6 areas (2 back, 2 out, 2 out). In addition to the rail line that runs into Liege and then south, if a GE IV Army detachment can move along the rail line from Luxembourg toward Sedan, that rail line can provide a supply connection for your "left wing" armies as well. One thing I have noticed in computer LGG is that a) you can't move and convert more than one space at a time, which is slower than the boardgame, and b) you have to move into a space to convert its rail line, so a stationary element can't convert a line where it is (very annoying, needs to be fixed in a later patch).
2. Siege Arty. Dragging these guys along will really slow down GE II Army if you let it. As soon as you can, detach the siege guns from the GE II Army HQ. I usually send the German siege gun to Antwerp to end that siege before the end of the year, and I usually end up using the other one to reduce Maubuege. Of course, the Austrian siege gun would do the trick at Paris a well
3. The French. The enemy "gets a vote" as they say, so the war plan the French adopt will heavily influence your ability to get a "historic" outcome. If the French go with Plan XVII, it reduces what they can detach and send back West to defend Paris. If they pick one of the other plans you may run into a very strong FR V Army and elements of FR I and II as well + the forming FR VI Army in Paris itself.
4. The Brits. I've played about 10 early August to October CG start ups (as the game has been patched / improved), and I've yet to see the Brits in Mons in force. Sometimes 1 corps is there at the most, with the main BEF force closer to Lille or the coast. In real life I guess the Brits had really good dice. I usually don't have trouble brushing the BEF aside with GE I and GE III both attacking it. German goal should be to push them toward the coast and screen them so they can't stay shoulder to shoulder with the French.
Hope this helps a bit. Enjoy the game!
Doug
Thanks Doug,
Inspiring! I'm gonna try out this course of action. RR conversion is indeed a crucial action and I am aware of the fact that earlier threads (well, at least one!) have been devoted to it. I guess one has to move from one's 'own' RR into the RR area to be converted, with the button being pushed prior to moving?
Inspiring! I'm gonna try out this course of action. RR conversion is indeed a crucial action and I am aware of the fact that earlier threads (well, at least one!) have been devoted to it. I guess one has to move from one's 'own' RR into the RR area to be converted, with the button being pushed prior to moving?
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dougbush93
- Captain
- Posts: 186
- Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:19 am
- Location: Arlington, Virginia
That's the one thing that is easier about RR conversion in computer LGG: you don't have to move from one rail hex to another to do it. The downside is, as I said, that you have to move *into* a space to convert, not convert in place with a stationary unit. Also, make sure you click the "convert rail" button for a stack before you tell it where to move. That should help.
I am hoping for a bit of graphics improvement to show where a country has converted rail lines. Right now it is the absence of those little railroad sign posts that tells you it has been converted. Kind of odd.
Doug
I am hoping for a bit of graphics improvement to show where a country has converted rail lines. Right now it is the absence of those little railroad sign posts that tells you it has been converted. Kind of odd.
Doug
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