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Franciscus
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:36 pm

PhilThib wrote:Just back from Sweden, I have three quick remarks to add to all those interesting debates and exchanges of views

A - Our NCP2 will be a great game, I am sure and all our energy goes into it. Most of our know-how and AGEOD's specifics will go into this product and we'll do our best to make use of the new engine advantages (not a PON-like waiting contest :D )

B - I cant tell more yet on the new AGE game, but the theme and era won't be obscure and lots of players will love it. Franciscus had good points here... ;)

C - Don't expect - for the moment - an AGE game with wars with frontlines (such as WW1 and the likes), the AGE engine cannot handle them with satisfaction right now. Later, when fixed, may be....those who played Drang Nach Osten on RUS will understand...so no WW1/WW2 yet

Thanks


Thanks, Phillippe, my heart is lighter already. And my hopes are higher, too :thumbsup:

I hope my post was not interpreted as unduly harsh, I sincerely hope you guys have all the success in the world ! :coeurs:

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PhilThib
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:39 pm

Franciscus wrote:I hope my post was not interpreted as unduly harsh, I sincerely hope you guys have all the success in the world ! :coeurs:


Speaking clearly and frankly is always appreciated, on the contrary, and I share some of the analysis ;) :coeurs:
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Raptor1
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:03 pm

I'm greatly looking forward to NCP2. So long as the same amount of detail and realism that the rest of AGEOD's games have, I don't see why the engine should matter so much. The only logical point of contention I can see is that it will be real time, which I personally prefer (Particularly given that it will make it much easier for me to get into a real time multiplayer game, especially with more than 2 people) but many others apparently do not. Perhaps the developers can implement a mode by which the game runs for 15 days and stops without anybody being able to issue orders in the meantime? The newer Combat Mission games have a setting like that.

I would be at the top of the list of fans of a Thirty Years' War game; it is my absolute favourite historical conflict and I really wonder why there haven't been a single wargame about it so far, especially given its relatively unique tactics and strategic situation. It is quite obscure as far as games go, though, so I guess that rules it out as the next AGE game.

I'm having a hard time thinking of a pre-World War I setting that is at the same time not obscure and hasn't been covered yet, though. Maybe the War of the Spanish Succession or the War of the Austrian Succession? Guess we'll have to wait and see.

BTW, I'm a fan of both Paradox and AGEOD games. Does that mean I should see a psychologist? :wacko:

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Flop
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:28 pm

Raptor1 wrote:I would be at the top of the list of fans of a Thirty Years' War game; it is my absolute favourite historical conflict and I really wonder why there haven't been a single wargame about it so far, especially given its relatively unique tactics and strategic situation. It is quite obscure as far as games go, though, so I guess that rules it out as the next AGE game.


The Thirty Years War is probably one of most important conflicts of western history, in terms of shaping the world we live in today. Maybe it is considered obscure, but if so, I blame our schools.

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Duckman
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:03 pm

I think the fact that the 30YW involves all the european countries could be a great selling point and would attract customers.

added is the benefit of being the first and only game on the subject /maybe a DLC of english civil war? to attract the americans?/. i think ageod underestimates the potential here. and finally, it doesnt involve front lines...so a perfect match for the engine

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ashandresash
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:12 pm

Encouraging words, PhilThib :coeurs:

I'm sure you'll do a great job with NPC2, and... over 3,000 provinces in Europe (Johan Andersson statement in Paradox forums) seems, wow, space enough to manouver ;)

Could we know when are you planning to release a Developer Diary? Good thing for making people more familiar with game dynamics (as well as for teasing a bit and building a community around). If it's in ageod's hands, I'd do it asap, though you have to give not a weekly periodicity but monthly or two in month.

Good to know about the AGE project also, not being an 'obscure' period. I hope it gives you the chance of investing in improving the engine. We all win.

veji1
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:16 pm

Thanks Phil, like others, after having grunted, I am warming up to NCP2. As long as I get the feeling of Napoleonic campaigns (Will Davout MTSG in time to save the day ? should I commit the reserves, ie the Imperial guard now ?), It will be great, rt or tb.

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ashandresash
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:16 pm

Duckman wrote:I think the fact that the 30YW involves all the european countries could be a great selling point and would attract customers.

added is the benefit of being the first and only game on the subject /maybe a DLC of english civil war? to attract the americans?/. i think ageod underestimates the potential here. and finally, it doesnt involve front lines...so a perfect match for the engine


I don't know, but I tend to think more in a 'classical' era wargame (Rome, perhaps?). It's a well-known period, there are a lot of space for scenarios, campaigns... and it's one of the period on which strategy and wargames sales are good.

Personally I'd love a 30 Years War, but an ageod's Rome would be amazing also :cool:

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beuckelssen
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:42 pm

The key question about the AGE engine game is the meaning of "hasn't been covered yet". Most of you seems to interpretate that the period hasnt been covered in the global videogames industry. But maybe means that hasn´t been covered by Ageod. And that gives a lot more of room for potential scenarios.

I think that it´s the second option and my bets are still in a roman game, maybe something about Punic Wars.

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Franciscus
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:20 pm

Rome, definitely. Room for lots of campaigns and scenarios (and DLCs), from the punic wars up to the fall of Byzantium ! :thumbsup:
A winner, and to me one dream come true :coeurs:

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Florent
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:43 pm

No WWII game and no obscure game thus it looks like a game in Antiquity, Rome or Greece perhaps and other later. I can't wait the official announcement. :D

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Queeg
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:46 pm

GillinghamFC wrote:
And 200,000 anarcho-syndicalist revolutionaries spring up in a province with a population of 50,000



Armies have always been far too big in Paradox games. I mentally divide each army by 10 just to maintain my sanity,

I am afraid this looks to me too much like Paradox saying to AGEOD "Your AGE engine didn't do a great job on a multi-actor high level strategy game (PON), but rather than fix that, and build on its other good features, let's throw the baby out with the bathwater"


We'll see. Combat has always been the weakest part of the Paradox games, while it's one of the strengths of AGEOD games. If they marry the two, we could end up with something special.

vaalen
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:54 pm

PhilThib wrote:Just back from Sweden, I have three quick remarks to add to all those interesting debates and exchanges of views

A - Our NCP2 will be a great game, I am sure and all our energy goes into it. Most of our know-how and AGEOD's specifics will go into this product and we'll do our best to make use of the new engine advantages (not a PON-like waiting contest :D )

B - I cant tell more yet on the new AGE game, but the theme and era won't be obscure and lots of players will love it. Franciscus had good points here... ;)

C - Don't expect - for the moment - an AGE game with wars with frontlines (such as WW1 and the likes), the AGE engine cannot handle them with satisfaction right now. Later, when fixed, may be....those who played Drang Nach Osten on RUS will understand...so no WW1/WW2 yet

Thanks


You made my week! Now I have to deal with the waiting, but that is a problem I am happy to have. Please tell the crew working on the mystery game that they have my full support, that I will give them no grief, as I have nothing but gratitude for them.

veji1
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:44 pm

The more I think about it, Clausewitz makes sense. There were 2 possibilities really :
- either AGEOD has the money and people to do a complete rework of the AGE engine, allowing it to function with multicore, run faster and smoother, an then we can have those TB games we love.
- Or it doesn't and then the only real solution is to use another engine, and Clausewitz is there.

In the end what will matter is that the game is AGEOD developped on the Paradox engine. Actually I think we obviously all wish the very best for NCP2, but I think one of the reasons is that it is a massive test for the wasy AGEOD and Paradox can work together.

If NCP is well done, satisfies the players with all the historical and wargaming qualities of the AGEOD titles (except for the TB to RT change), than it wil vindicate Paradox's business decision to invest in AGEOD and it will make AGEOD a more important part of Paradox, giving it a bigger part in Paradox's business plan and allowing for more support and means for AGEOD, perhaps even leading to a PARADOX programed and supported new TB engine.

I mean all we hope for is for this game to work and for PARADOX to think :" well the Phils are doing a great work on more historic type of wargames, they have ideas and know how to implement them, they are just not good at programming but if we do that job than there is a whole line of games to be developped, let's do that!"

So I am going to be positive from now on, and hope that AGEOD can show PARADOX its worth which would lead to more investment and more games from AGEOD down the road with PARADOX's support.

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Nikel
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:18 pm

I wonder who are the designers of the new AGE engine game.

They are french said PhilThib, perhaps Lafrite, El Nino...? ;)

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Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:43 pm

Raptor1 wrote:Perhaps the developers can implement a mode by which the game runs for 15 days and stops without anybody being able to issue orders in the meantime? The newer Combat Mission games have a setting like that.


Could something something like this be possible? My worries about this game are Clausewitz and my previous bad experience with it. I'm still somewhat hopeful that Ageod can do something innovative with it though.

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PhilThib
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:43 pm

Did I mentionn 4 people? Or didn't I :D

French-speaking does not necessarily means from France btw :mdr:
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Nikel
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:47 pm

PhilThib wrote:Did I mentionn 4 people? Or didn't I :D

French-speaking does not necessarily means from France btw :mdr:



You are enjoying the secret, are you not? :D

And you said french, not french-speaking ;)

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Franciscus
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Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:34 pm

Nikel wrote:I wonder who are the designers of the new AGE engine game.

They are french said PhilThib, perhaps Lafrite, El Nino...? ;)


Andatiep is also strangely quiet... :cool:

Mirandasucre
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news

Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:56 pm

i'm still looking forward to next DLC for PON.....1880 scenario.....and other scenarios...and perhaps a new patch.....i hope PON will keep grow better.....for me it's the ageod masterpiece....their most ambitious project ever....

Ilitarist
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:25 am

Duckman wrote:i think ageod underestimates the potential here. and finally, it doesnt involve front lines...so a perfect match for the engine


I'm not an expert, but:

1) Can you clearly define sides in 30YW? In 7YW you have two coalitions that grow with time. Not so sure about 30YW. Weren't there internal struggles? Can you model all factions of coalition with single command?

2) Too big and complex warfare. So you have overwhelming game or just local conflicts.

3) Hard to make clear Grand Campaign. People like Grand Campaigns.

So my bet is on Rome or better just antiques. AGEOD already has some political system among commanders, for Rome it could be updated (republics/monarchies/empires with different concepts of general seniority), plus some basic economy and maybe diplomacy. Since we're talking about ancient world and nobody will cry if Greecian states become 1 or 2 or 3 big leagues you won't have many countries in grand campaign. The only problem is too much sea, I don't recall any AGE game handling so much naval warfare and troop transport. But that's enough for me to seriously doubt Roman theme. What is it, what is it?

veji1
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:42 am

Well might hope is on a game based on a European map, with provinces the size of those in ROP, so that this map can than be used, with moddable overlays and sprites, to emulate all sorts of european conflicts from 1600 to 1900. in that sense the 30YW or the wars of LouisXIV (who would'nt want to play Eugêne de Savoie or Malborough or Turenne or Condé or Villars ?) would be my hope.

Because then either as expansion packs or community mods, all the tools in this games, designed specifically to be easely modded, would allow to create many more games, including if the community was up to it, an NCP2 type based on the AGE engine !

Let#s dream...

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wijse
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:33 pm

Ok heres to the thirty years war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPgu-oBrLk&
Also known as wis on the paradox forums.

vaalen
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:00 pm

Mirandasucre wrote:i'm still looking forward to next DLC for PON.....1880 scenario.....and other scenarios...and perhaps a new patch.....i hope PON will keep grow better.....for me it's the ageod masterpiece....their most ambitious project ever....


I agree.

deoved
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:16 pm

Mirandasucre wrote:i'm still looking forward to next DLC for PON.....1880 scenario.....and other scenarios...and perhaps a new patch.....i hope PON will keep grow better.....for me it's the ageod masterpiece....their most ambitious project ever....


Expansion that will fix econony and diplomacy design flaws, much needed. Its not fair to leave game in such state.

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le Anders
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:33 pm

I'm personally hoping for a reworked RTS-version all the AGEOD-games.

As for the 30-year war, a 30-year GC doesn't really work with turns representing 15 days each, or even a month each. It would need to be broken up to represent the different phases of the war (which was really several wars, as we all know).
So a Bohemian phase, a Swedish phase, probably a Dutch scenario or something like it, etc.

veji1
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:10 pm

Well a key element of a GC game in any time modern time period (1600 to 1900) would be the ability ot have variable turn lengths between active phases and inactive diplomatic ones.

Or one could imagine a more event/rigid driven "fake" GC that imports results from the previous phase and than applies a form of randomization, contextualisation to give a somewhat altered starting point to the next phase. Say the Bohemian phase has a different outcome, than you start the next phase with an altered set up.

In that instance a GC could be seen more like a tennis match with several sets of x turns, linked by an event and contextualization bridge (import) rather than a football match with one single event lasting x turns. A bit like the HPS campaign series from Tiller if you wish. I don't see why this wouldn#t be doable. (not saying it is simple, but it should be doable).

Leinsdorf
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Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:55 pm

veji1 wrote:Well might hope is on a game based on a European map, with provinces the size of those in ROP, so that this map can than be used, with moddable overlays and sprites, to emulate all sorts of european conflicts from 1600 to 1900. in that sense the 30YW or the wars of LouisXIV (who would'nt want to play Eugêne de Savoie or Malborough or Turenne or Condé or Villars ?) would be my hope.

Because then either as expansion packs or community mods, all the tools in this games, designed specifically to be easely modded, would allow to create many more games, including if the community was up to it, an NCP2 type based on the AGE engine !

Let#s dream...


I would join at once the dream team! Wonderful ideas, indeed.

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OneArmedMexican
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Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:27 am

Franciscus wrote:Rome, definitely. Room for lots of campaigns and scenarios (and DLCs), from the punic wars up to the fall of Byzantium ! :thumbsup:
A winner, and to me one dream come true :coeurs:


Sounds like a good guess. While the AGE engine really doesn't work for frontlines à la WW I or II, it works very well for any kind of maneuver warfare. Antiquity is almost as good a setting for this engine as the 18th and 19th century. I will miss railways, though. The options for fast movements they provided, contributed a lot to the fun of ACW and RUS. :)

As much as many hardcore AGEOD fans would love a 30 Years War game, it was never a realistic hope. Far too obscure. The diplomacy side would be managable, though. Basically the conflict can be divided into a two player game: Habsburg + Catholic Union + Spain vs Protestant Liga + Denmark + Sweden + France. Some subfactions quit during the war, others enter it as time progresses.

veji1 wrote:The more I think about it, Clausewitz makes sense. There were 2 possibilities really :
- either AGEOD has the money and people to do a complete rework of the AGE engine, allowing it to function with multicore, run faster and smoother, an then we can have those TB games we love.


PoN is the only AGE game with insufferable processing times. As long as AGE games have a more limited scope, the engine doesn't need a complete overhaul. PoN was AGEOD wanting too much.

Ilitarist
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Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:36 am

OneArmedMexican wrote:PoN is the only AGE game with insufferable processing times. As long as AGE games have a more limited scope, the engine doesn't need a complete overhaul. PoN was AGEOD wanting too much.


The only one with insufferable - yes. But even RoP doesn't run smooth on powerful PCs made after the game was made. Graphic engine should be reworked too, so that CPU doesn't choke on processing both logic and images.

I'm confused that nobody sees that obvious problem. Process graphics with CPU => make possible bigger detailed map with various objects on screen & remove slowdown & dramatically increase time for AI without any multi-core support.

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