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PhilThib
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:47 pm

Indeed, the new project makes good use of a AGE feature (in place since ROP, but no modders really made use of it!) that allows to display various extra graphics on the map, on a non-pemanent basis ;) :D :thumbsup:

See here, it opens of world of opportunities!

http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/AddDynGraphic
Image

Baris
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:44 pm

I think in order for this modding community to flourish maybe there can be some improvements in the next age engine game, for making pbem system easier to access by creating online servers with P-X facilities. This way additional scenarios,DlC's will be more welcomed and played not only by the players who only have elegant,intellectual tastes in gaming than pbem game concerns. Easy access can attract more players and maintain continuous development of age-engine based games.

Bison36
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:16 pm

Well looking forward to the proposed gaming plan you've laid out Phil.

nadia911
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:52 pm

Johan
Studio Manager
Paradox Dev Team

"I'm really interested in this game, it seems like a Napoleonic HoI"

Thats one of the things we want with this game.

:bonk:


vaalen
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:54 pm

Robert E. Lee wrote:It's not sure. Johan told me they focus on steam. CK2's case however shows they do listen to us. CK2's was full steam initially. Now there will be a gamersgate version as well which is what i will get. It's important to keep the pressure as soon as sub-forum for the game is open in the Paradox forums.


The sub forum for the game is now open at the Paradox forums. I would invite you to address this, since you know the issue so well.

vaalen
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Clausewitz does not determine game features

Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:00 pm

Johan posted on the Paradox forum for this game some very interesting information on why they chose the Clauswitz engine.

He said that Clausewitz does not determine game features, but is mainly concerned with graphical and system issues, such as multi core support.

True, the game is pausable real time rather than turnbased, but this need not be fatal, and should result in a lot more interest from the Paradox faithful.

So our intrepid Phils should be free to put all kinds of superb Ageod features into the game, and I know they will.

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beuckelssen
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:04 pm




The video from PhilThib is really interesting. He talks about the combat; my main concern with clausewich engine, and it doesn´t sound bad at all. Even if I would prefer a AGE game I´ll follow all the news and uptades because this video gave me hope. :)

The bad news (for me) are that I believe after reading Johan in Paradox forums that the graphics will be handle by the artists from "paradox Sweden". Another terrible bad looking map in the way? :(

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Queeg
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:10 pm

AGEOD:

Whatever you do, please PLEASE don't use the Paradox combat model of two guys standing around shooting at each other for a month while a screen you can't control flashes faux "frontages" at you.

The Paradox combat model is a completely nonsensical mess of mismatched concepts. If a "battle" lasts a month, then it must include some concept of maneuver. Fine. But then what do the shifting "frontages" represent? Does the tactical engagement last for a full month?!!?

Conceptually, I understand what they're driving at. The frontages represent tactical advantages gained by force composition, technical advances, etc. Fine. But the AGEOD engine does a far better job of presenting those same concepts in the form of pre-battle maneuver, followed by by a discrete battle. Same result but in a much more reasonable way.

The combat model is one area where Paradox needs to learn from AGEOD and not vice versa. Perhaps some hybrid of the two is best. But the Paradox model that has been around, with little change in the core concept, since EU1 is a major drag on the franchise.

Please no more guys who stand around for months and grunt at each other!

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Franciscus
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:20 pm

nadia911 wrote:Johan
Studio Manager
Paradox Dev Team

"I'm really interested in this game, it seems like a Napoleonic HoI"

Thats one of the things we want with this game.

:bonk:


Image

:8o: :non: :mad: :bonk:

Please, if you want to keep us believing, someone should shut up Johan ! I definitely do not want a Napoleonic HoI !! :blink:

(PS: The only good news to me at Paradox forum until now is that apparently there will be a Mac version from day 1...:cool :)

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Hobbes
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:58 pm

"The game will come with lots of expansions on a long-term, multi-years programm: that's where players will be involved; they will be allowed to give their opinion and desires, help choose the subjects, and even get involved into creating content (graphic, historical, DB, etc...)"

This sounds pretty good! :thumbsup:

vaalen
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:19 pm

Franciscus wrote:Image

:8o: :non: :mad: :bonk:

Please, if you want to keep us believing, someone should shut up Johan ! I definitely do not want a Napoleonic HoI !! :blink:

(PS: The only good news to me at Paradox forum until now is that apparently there will be a Mac version from day 1...:cool :)


Johan made a pretty vague statement. If you see the video where Philippe talks about the game, it sure does not sound like HOI. HoI has a much more detailed combat and production system than the other Paradox games, and that could be what Johan meant.

Bison36
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:32 pm

Hobbes wrote:"The game will come with lots of expansions on a long-term, multi-years programm: that's where players will be involved; they will be allowed to give their opinion and desires, help choose the subjects, and even get involved into creating content (graphic, historical, DB, etc...)"

This sounds pretty good! :thumbsup:


I'm with you on this Hobbes. :w00t:

veji1
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:49 pm

Having seen Phils video I feel a bit better. Graphics are moddable so I suppose now my worry is basically centered on the RT as opposed to TB, but I am starting to feel better about it and will follow development closely.

vaalen
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Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:40 pm

There is now a thread on the Paradox forum for the new game about requesting that a non steam version be also made available.

Johan stated "It is too early to tell", in response to the first request, so it has not yet been decided. As Robert E Lee posted earlier, now is the time to show support for a non steam version by posting on that forum thread.

The more of us who do it, the better chance we will have to get it.

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Flop
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:01 am

I'm not too happy about the Clausewitz NCP announcement, but I'll reserve judgement, and give Ageod the benefit of the doubt. After all, with the information available, it's hard to say anything concrete about the game, except that it'll be real-time.

I'm very excited to hear about the new AGE game, though, and I'm very much looking forward to more information. Please, please, please, let it be about the 30 Years War. :)

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Flop
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:30 am

PhilThib wrote:And one recent modding game (RUS) was attacked by grumpy souls which led to disouragement in the community rather than the contrary (and this despite the fact the game was good)...


I didn't know that RUS had a harsh reception. I guess I just didn't notice, or something. Shame, really, since it's easily one of my favourite (if not favourite) Ageod games.

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barbu
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:31 am

emx77 wrote:i agree completely. For ageod fans it is a step back in two areas:

First, beautiful, hand drawn, maps are ageod trade mark. For me, they are important immersion factor. Also, it seems armies will be represented by generic 3d soldier figures. I don't like them. At least, please give us option to use scalable nato symbols like in hoi3.

Second, i never liked real-time mechanics of paradox games. I wonder how this will impact people who are preferring to play pbem game?


+1

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deguerra
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:05 am

vaalen wrote: HoI has a much more detailed combat and production system than the other Paradox games, and that could be what Johan meant.


exactly this. While a hoi-like game may sound bad, of the mainstream paradox titles, the hoi series (esp 1 and 2) are closest to the detail and focus found in ageod games.

The trailer is decidedly blegh. I personally think they should have waited til later to show off stuff. Currently it looks too much like vicky. Phillipes's interview was great. It keeps me believing that despite the look, it won't be too much like vicky.

Also is it just me being blind and deaf or has no one actually confirmed that action will be realtime?

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H Gilmer3
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:58 am

Did anyone look at the other video? The 45 second video that showed armies and the interface (a little bit). I know these things tend to change, but it does look a lot like a Napoleon HOI with a little arrow that shows the progress of your units moving.

Just curious about that. Withholding judgment.

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ERISS
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:19 am

Flop wrote:I didn't know that RUS had a harsh reception.

It has to have the worst reception, as it is the more political Ageod game, and sides, their few spreading remains, have not made peace for now since long!
But this worst is lesser than the hailings RUS received. Devs tend to seeing only the bad feedbacks.

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wijse
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Yes we can!

Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:17 am

For what its worth, I'm going to buy this game, but not because i want to play it, but because i want to support them financially. I abhor clausewitz engine games and I am not going to play them. Looking forward to the next AGE game. When are we going to get some more information?
Also known as wis on the paradox forums.

deoved
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:20 am

wijse wrote:For what its worth, I'm going to buy this game, but not because i want to play it, but because i want to support them financially. I abhor clausewitz engine games and I am not going to play them. Looking forward to the next AGE game. When are we going to get some more information?


Johan will try to market this game mostly inside Paradoxian community and not here, cause they have bigger, broader, well, and somekind simplier community. I doubt most of us here would buy Vivtoria II/HoI III unit texture skinpacks.

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Duckman
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:59 am

Flop wrote:I'm very excited to hear about the new AGE game, though, and I'm very much looking forward to more information. Please, please, please, let it be about the 30 Years War. :)


+1! Thirty Years War is gathering support int he forum! Yes! Please Phillipes, make 30YW game. The first ever in gaming history! :coeurs:

Leinsdorf
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:43 am

Duckman wrote:+1! Thirty Years War is gathering support int he forum! Yes! Please Phillipes, make 30YW game. The first ever in gaming history! :coeurs:


+1. Thirty Years War is a quite interesting, even fascinating conflict, ideal also for multiplayer game. I'd buy it immediately! A further suggestion would be to extend the historical scope of ROP encompassing most conflicts of 18th century (Spanish Succession & Marlborough Wars, Charles XII, etc.)

deoved
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:22 pm

Look, game timeframe will be only ten years (1805-1815) and as we clearly see on screenshots, time will pass one day at one tic, basicaly like Victoria or EU. So it troubles me even more: with gameplay close to Victoria II (minus industry, voting system, etc.) it will have only 1/10 campaign length of the former. I am sure there will be no scenarios aside of "Grand Campaign", cause they will be beaten in 5 min.

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Franciscus
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:46 pm

deoved wrote:Look, game timeframe will be only ten years (1805-1815) and as we clearly see on screenshots, time will pass one day at one tic, basicaly like Victoria or EU. So it troubles me even more: with gameplay close to Victoria II (minus industry, voting system, etc.) it will have only 1/10 campaign length of the former. I am sure there will be no scenarios aside of "Grand Campaign", cause they will be beaten in 5 min.


But look at the positives: it will surely play faster than PoN :D

GillinghamFC
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:08 pm

Whatever you do, please PLEASE don't use the Paradox combat model of two guys standing around shooting at each other for a month while a screen you can't control flashes faux "frontages" at you.

The Paradox combat model is a completely [color="Red"]nonsensical mess of mismatched concepts[/color]. If a "battle" lasts a month, then it must include some concept of maneuver. Fine. But then what do the shifting "frontages" represent? Does the tactical engagement last for a full month?!!?

Conceptually, I understand what they're driving at. The frontages represent tactical advantages gained by force composition, technical advances, etc. Fine. But the AGEOD engine does a far better job of presenting those same concepts in the form of pre-battle maneuver, followed by by a discrete battle. Same result but in a much more reasonable way.

[color="red"]The combat model is one area where Paradox needs to learn from AGEOD and not vice versa. [/color]Perhaps some hybrid of the two is best. But the Paradox model that has been around, with little change in the core concept, since EU1 is a major drag on the franchise.

Please no more guys who stand around for months and grunt at each other!


Like where a battle lasts 10 days. And the shock phase happens before the fire phase! (EU3 was like this round about the third expansion)

And 200,000 anarcho-syndicalist revolutionaries spring up in a province with a population of 50,000

I am afraid this looks to me too much like Paradox saying to AGEOD "Your AGE engine didn't do a great job on a multi-actor high level strategy game (PON), but rather than fix that, and build on its other good features, let's throw the baby out with the bathwater"

wosung
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:11 pm

It's interesting, that, until now, the ... impact of Nappy 2 is much greater here and at the Wargamer than at the Paradox forum. But it won't stay this way.

Concerning those two game trailers plus the first screenies Nappy 2 will have:

-trinity battles with 3 columns and a reserve, reminds me of Phil's WW 1.
-besides the great powers probably lots of minors (interview with Phil). Could be bad for focussing things.
-giants sticking muskeets and bayonets at each other. A mature design.

It seems that Paradox wants to develop some mid-range games using smaller maps and time periods besides its blockbusters of global, long time games. We'll see how sandboxed those will be and how flexible Clausewitz will be.

Finally a question:
Any plans with Ageod forum? Will it stay?

Regards

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Citizen X
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Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:18 pm

I too had hoped for a NCP 2 in AGOED look and engine.
But let's not judge it before we have a demo, shall we? Both engines have their pros and cons.
We could end up with a game that combines the best of both worlds.
"I am here already.", said the hedgehog to the hare.

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