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TiFlo
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Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:10 pm

PANGI wrote:if i understand good there weren't any marine corps during peace years until 1755 so i suppose after canceling in 1748 they had to be redressed in 1755.

You're spot on!
I hadn't thought about that. Here is what I could find (wikipedia, but this one seems reliable). See especially this part:

A large number of English and British marine regiments were raised for various specific wars. After the war for which they were raised, these regiments either became ordinary army infantry regiments or were disbanded. His Majesty's Marine Forces raised in 1755 are the oldest direct predecessor of the Royal Marines.

  • 1664: Duke of York and Albany's Maritime Regiment of Foot raised from the Trained Bands of London and later re-named Lord Admiral's Regiment. This marine regiment is the predecessor of The Buffs, itself a predecessor of the Princess of Wales' Royal Regiment.
  • Two Marine Regiments of the Army raised in 1690 and disbanded in 1696: Earl of Pembroke's Regiment and Torrington's, (later Lord Berkeley's) Regiment.
  • 1697: Mordaunt's Regiment and Seymour's Regiment converted into Marines.
  • 1702: Six Regiments of Marines and six Sea Service Regiments of Foot raised. In 1713, three of these Regiments were transferred to the Line to became the 30th Foot (a predecessor of the Royal Anglian Regiment), 31st Foot (a predecessor of the Princess of Wales' Royal Regiment), and 32nd Foot (a predecessor of the Rifles). The others were disbanded.
  • 1739-1748: Marine Regiments raised in the War of Jenkins' Ear.
  • 1741: Spotswood's Regiment, later re-named Gooch's Marines, later becoming the 61st Foot (a predecessor of the Rifles) was raised from North American colonists.
  • 1755: His Majesty's Marine Forces raised. The oldest predecessor to which the Royal Marines can trace a direct lineage.
[CENTER]« Quel pays ! Quels hommes ! Quelle guerre ! Non, ma chère maman, votre enfant n'est pas fait pour habiter cette contrée barbare. »
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[CENTER] Louis-Antoine de Bougainville, 1758
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[CENTER][color=DarkGreen]WIA 1.05 Patch[/color]
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PANGI
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:13 am

also found this:

In 1755, Marine forces were formed on a permanent basis. At this period, the uniform was red, faced white, with white linings, waistcoats and breeches, and silver Officers’ lace. The Marines are also recorded as wearing caps similar to those of earlier Regiments, although these were probably reserved for ceremonial dress, and the day-to-day headgear was the cocked hat.


http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausnavy/Royal_Marines.htm

ok...ive made this:
Image

maybe youre talking what exactly i made new...the facings are really white

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TiFlo
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:56 pm

Looks good!
I'm assuming there are no gaiters because it's mainly an on-board duty, right?
[CENTER]« Quel pays ! Quels hommes ! Quelle guerre ! Non, ma chère maman, votre enfant n'est pas fait pour habiter cette contrée barbare. »
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[CENTER] Louis-Antoine de Bougainville, 1758
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[CENTER]Image
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[CENTER][color=DarkGreen]WIA 1.05 Patch[/color]
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Ian Coote
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:09 pm

Hi Guys.I really like your uniform mod,it adds much to an already great game.I do have a question though.I'm reading Andersons book "Crucible of War", he mentions that in Shirley's force, there are two regts. the 50th and 51st that were deactivated at the end of King Georges War and resucitated for the FIW. I'm not sure,but should these maybe have redcoats ? :confused:

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TiFlo
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:14 pm

That's some heavy reading you're tackling here :D
For what I remember, Shirley's and Peperell's wore redcoats, being early provincial regulars. Do they use the provincial blue uniform in game?
[CENTER]« Quel pays ! Quels hommes ! Quelle guerre ! Non, ma chère maman, votre enfant n'est pas fait pour habiter cette contrée barbare. »
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[CENTER] Louis-Antoine de Bougainville, 1758
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[CENTER]Image
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[CENTER][color=DarkGreen]WIA 1.05 Patch[/color]
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PANGI
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:17 pm

TiFlo wrote:Looks good!
I'm assuming there are no gaiters because it's mainly an on-board duty, right?


dont know...maybe. Mainly i want to make them different from regulars.

Yes. Peperell's and Shirley's should have red coats with red facings. Really like to have them in game, but again, game operates only with one model for provincials, so yes, they have blue coat.

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TiFlo
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:22 pm

... and the provincial model you chose is that of late Washington's Virginians (BTW the early unit, in 1754, wore red coats). As it is now, there is only so much we can do without having to modify the game database. And provincials in blue make them easily distinct from British regulars.

And the marine is fine like that. I don't think gaiters were used on-board anyway.
[CENTER]« Quel pays ! Quels hommes ! Quelle guerre ! Non, ma chère maman, votre enfant n'est pas fait pour habiter cette contrée barbare. »
[/CENTER]
[CENTER] Louis-Antoine de Bougainville, 1758
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[CENTER]Image
[/CENTER]

[CENTER][color=DarkGreen]WIA 1.05 Patch[/color]
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PANGI
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:38 pm

TiFlo wrote:... and the provincial model you chose is that of late Washington's Virginians (BTW the early unit, in 1754, wore red coats). As it is now, there is only so much we can do without having to modify the game database. And provincials in blue make them easily distinct from British regulars.


I made him according to virginians but similar uniform was used by many regiment through the states. Surely they were very colorful but i think this type was quite common.

(im not sure what they wore in 1754 - but at monongahela virginians had blue coats (but i think they maybe left them in alexandria))

edit: yes. you're right. virginians have plain red uniforms in 1754 :)

TiFlo wrote:And the marine is fine like that. I don't think gaiters were used on-board anyway.


Maybe. For example british forces in india in SYW didnt wear gaiters. But im not sure about the reason.

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TiFlo
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:45 pm

Blue was indeed commonly used. Still, there were red, brown and green coats for provincial units throughout the war, as well as units that didn't have any special uniform due to the lack of funding for them.

You're right, the Virginians were issued blue coats in 1755.

As for the absence of gaiters in India, I would say it has to do with the nature of the terrain they were on. In North America, backwoods can be pretty treacherous and you do want that extra protection on your legs when walking in there. Even now, I use a pair when I go hiking. The heat may have played a role too. Those things are a boiling pot in hot weather.
[CENTER]« Quel pays ! Quels hommes ! Quelle guerre ! Non, ma chère maman, votre enfant n'est pas fait pour habiter cette contrée barbare. »
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[CENTER] Louis-Antoine de Bougainville, 1758
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[CENTER]Image
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[CENTER][color=DarkGreen]WIA 1.05 Patch[/color]
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PANGI
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:58 pm

TiFlo wrote:Blue was indeed commonly used. Still, there were red, brown and green coats for provincial units throughout the war, as well as units that didn't have any special uniform due to the lack of funding for them.


Yes. Your language ability allows you to wright what i can only think :)


You're probably right about gaiters, they were simply not needed in India and onboard ships (and maybe even obstruct).
TiFlo wrote:Even now, I use a pair when I go hiking.

:)

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PANGI
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Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:59 am

small revisions:
spanish infantry and grenadier, british grenadier version two

ImageImageImage

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TiFlo
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Sat Sep 05, 2009 3:55 pm

You never stop, do you?

They look great! Although I kind of liked the grenadier with white gaiters. It emphasized on their elite status. Sort of like Napoleon's imperial guard who went into battle wearing white gloves. But they probably wore such brown gaiters at some point too, so I'll just shut up and do my own personal modification of regular troops with white gaiters for the days I want parading soldiers (to go alongside your cocky Highlander) :neener:

EDIT: Actually, thinking about it. Why don't you make two packs? One with clean parade looking soldiers, and one with soldiers on campaign dress. I know I'm a pain asking for multiple releases, but there is just so many different models that I find it sad if some were put out of use.
[CENTER]« Quel pays ! Quels hommes ! Quelle guerre ! Non, ma chère maman, votre enfant n'est pas fait pour habiter cette contrée barbare. »
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[CENTER] Louis-Antoine de Bougainville, 1758
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[CENTER]Image
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[CENTER][color=DarkGreen]WIA 1.05 Patch[/color]
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PANGI
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Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:14 pm

TiFlo wrote:Sort of like Napoleon's imperial guard who went into battle wearing white gloves.


Never heard. But it means nothing becouse of my little interest in Napoleonic era.

But do you mean brits or spaniards? I agree with you in case of british grenadier and it was my original intention left him white gaiters to look more "elite". But at some point i change my mind and after looking at various sources i want to have him more rustical just like regulars and royal americans. (In american wilderness (but i think in other battle conditions) they realy werent much showy...) Yes, its only matter of taste (maybe i should make a poll here to save some work) but if you give me a time, probably tomorrow i will like the version with white gaiters...

TiFlo wrote:...your cocky Highlander...


cocky? what a word...

But you really didnt talk about spaniards, did you? Who wore white gaiters (like french) in every condition...
btw i'd like some criticism of them too (dont disappoint me TiFlo :D )

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TiFlo
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Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:36 pm

"Cocky" as "proud": the guy is wearing as much clothes and equipment as possible, but for no real use in wilderness warfare ;)

I won't be able to say much about the Spaniards, they're out of my field. Except that I really like the red cockade on the tricorne and the grenadier cap. What sources did you use?
:p ouet:Arsan??!!!

EDIT: My humble try.
Image
[CENTER]« Quel pays ! Quels hommes ! Quelle guerre ! Non, ma chère maman, votre enfant n'est pas fait pour habiter cette contrée barbare. »
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[CENTER] Louis-Antoine de Bougainville, 1758
[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Image
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[CENTER][color=DarkGreen]WIA 1.05 Patch[/color]
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PANGI
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Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:13 pm

the highlander: Oooh. :cool: (ive finished the sleeves so far :) ) make UNIT file also.
edit: :w00t: and what about the inaccurate bonnet? shame on you!

about the spanish sources: so there's a problem. not many - ive almost completely trust http://www.kronoskaf.com (modeled according to aragon regiment) but also looked here http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchresult.cfm?parent_id=120417&word=
(but they're mainly against themselves :( )

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TiFlo
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Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:20 pm

I'll wait to see yours before doing more work :D

It looks like several regiments have pants of the same colours as the regimental facings (blue or red). Maybe you could add that?
[CENTER]« Quel pays ! Quels hommes ! Quelle guerre ! Non, ma chère maman, votre enfant n'est pas fait pour habiter cette contrée barbare. »
[/CENTER]
[CENTER] Louis-Antoine de Bougainville, 1758
[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Image
[/CENTER]

[CENTER][color=DarkGreen]WIA 1.05 Patch[/color]
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PANGI
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Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:41 pm

TiFlo wrote:It looks like several regiments have pants of the same colours as the regimental facings (blue or red). Maybe you could add that?


edit: but according to kronoskaf not.

Im playing around with it just now. Also trying to unbotton the coat.

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Hobbes
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Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:41 pm

TiFlo wrote:"Cocky" as "proud": the guy is wearing as much clothes and equipment as possible, but for no real use in wilderness warfare ;)

I won't be able to say much about the Spaniards, they're out of my field. Except that I really like the red cockade on the tricorne and the grenadier cap. What sources did you use?
:p ouet:Arsan??!!!

EDIT: My humble try.
Image


:thumbsup:

I'm still reading this thread hoping that a consensus will be reached for the
most likely looking highlander for Pontiac's War :)

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TiFlo
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Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:13 pm

@ PANGI
Mmh... That's a difficult call to make. Still, I would go with Kronoscaf, their sources seem as accurate as it can be. Also, their uniforms are per a 1759 book, while those from the NYPL are from the early 1760's. Things can change really fast: the "new" reorganized French army of 1762 wears the uniforms you will see during the American War of Independence.

PS: Very well, I'll butcher the work you did on the bonnet since you want it so hard. :evilgrin:

@ Hobbes
There is no consensus to be reached :D
If you want a Highlander that fits into the 1760-1763 period in North America and the Pontiac War, your choice comes down to those 3:
ImageImageImage
The 1st one can only be an officer, as they would be the only men keeping their Broadsword. And yet, most of them would discard it in favour of the duo musket-bayonet. They all knew too well that the least recognizable they were form the rank-and-files on the field, the less likely they were to be shot as valuable targets by enemy marksmen (remember the Monongahela battle for that matter). Furthermore, the tartan is still worn, which again would be out of use by then (Actually, mounted officers would wear regular breaches and boots).

The two other can make pretty good soldiers, minus the laces on the coat, that PANGI and I are removing right now.
[CENTER]« Quel pays ! Quels hommes ! Quelle guerre ! Non, ma chère maman, votre enfant n'est pas fait pour habiter cette contrée barbare. »
[/CENTER]
[CENTER] Louis-Antoine de Bougainville, 1758
[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Image
[/CENTER]

[CENTER][color=DarkGreen]WIA 1.05 Patch[/color]
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Hobbes
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Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:00 am

:thumbsup:

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PANGI
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:19 pm

for everyone who is interested in uniforms - classic from David Morier in great quality:
http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/egallery/maker.asp?maker=12356

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TiFlo
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Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:13 am

Just saw your update PANGI. Great, thank you for all the work!

Brothers in arms:
Image
[CENTER]« Quel pays ! Quels hommes ! Quelle guerre ! Non, ma chère maman, votre enfant n'est pas fait pour habiter cette contrée barbare. »
[/CENTER]
[CENTER] Louis-Antoine de Bougainville, 1758
[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Image
[/CENTER]

[CENTER][color=DarkGreen]WIA 1.05 Patch[/color]
[/CENTER]


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PANGI
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Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:01 am

thanks fellow
oh...the bonnet! do you have it also in UNIT file? i could adopt it (if you dont mind).

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TiFlo
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Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:16 pm

Here you go. A darker blue would be even better, but then we might not be able to see the difference with black. I believe that one to be a good compromise.
Image
Attachments
Alternative Highlander - Pontiac War edition.zip
(164.07 KiB) Downloaded 145 times
[CENTER]« Quel pays ! Quels hommes ! Quelle guerre ! Non, ma chère maman, votre enfant n'est pas fait pour habiter cette contrée barbare. »
[/CENTER]
[CENTER] Louis-Antoine de Bougainville, 1758
[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Image
[/CENTER]

[CENTER][color=DarkGreen]WIA 1.05 Patch[/color]
[/CENTER]


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Hobbes
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Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:39 pm

TiFlo wrote:Here you go. A darker blue would be even better, but then we might not be able to see the difference with black. I believe that one to be a good compromise.
Image


Thanks for all the work chaps. :love:
I will be adding this version to Pontiac in the next week or so (unless there are more amendments). The mod should be available in a couple of weeks and then part of the next patch.

Chris

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PANGI
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Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:19 am

I've managed one minor thing...
Image
...did you observed? :)

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PANGI
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Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:53 am

just toying with this...
Image
but still dont know how to manage the "Army" appearance - still show the original colonial look...

so Shirley's or Pepperell's:
Image
Attachments
50th_51th.rar
(32.26 KiB) Downloaded 136 times

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TiFlo
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Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:10 pm

Wow. Now you have to tell us what you did there, that looks very promising!

PS: Pepperell's for me.
[CENTER]« Quel pays ! Quels hommes ! Quelle guerre ! Non, ma chère maman, votre enfant n'est pas fait pour habiter cette contrée barbare. »
[/CENTER]
[CENTER] Louis-Antoine de Bougainville, 1758
[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Image
[/CENTER]

[CENTER][color=DarkGreen]WIA 1.05 Patch[/color]
[/CENTER]


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PANGI
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Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:46 pm

Just now i must say that im not completely sure (still cannot manage the "army" look).

I think Hobbes is the person who can give us some answers (and give me a hand before my mind will go)

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TiFlo
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Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:06 pm

Ok. You may want to ask lodilefty too. There are also a couple of info here.
[CENTER]« Quel pays ! Quels hommes ! Quelle guerre ! Non, ma chère maman, votre enfant n'est pas fait pour habiter cette contrée barbare. »
[/CENTER]
[CENTER] Louis-Antoine de Bougainville, 1758
[/CENTER]

[CENTER]Image
[/CENTER]

[CENTER][color=DarkGreen]WIA 1.05 Patch[/color]
[/CENTER]


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