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Hobbes
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Random Seed?

Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:43 pm

Hi chaps, I have a question about the probability of events firing.
If I have say a 50% chance of an event firing and test this a few times without moving any units can I expect the event to always trigger or never trigger?

I've played games where the random number used by the game is affected by moving units. If you make exactly the same moves in the same sequence or don't move at all you will always get the same results. Is this the case with AGEOD games? No problem with this - just making sure I understand how events fire when I'm testing.

Chris

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Primasprit
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Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:13 pm

Hi Chris!

Yes, the random seed is fixed. So if you load a game and resolve the turn several times, all random events should show the same behaviour.

Cheers
Norbert

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lodilefty
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Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:23 pm

AACW had [has?] a version with a variable to generate random seeds with same setup [part of the battles realism project].

Does it make sense to have this in WIA [as beta only, of course, else we'd have 100x problems with bug fixing :blink: ]
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Primasprit
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Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:27 pm

Yes, this was done to for the testing, to have different battle results when loading from a saved game. Aside from this I am not sure if it is needed.

Cheers
Norbert

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Hobbes
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Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:57 pm

Primasprit wrote:Hi Chris!

Yes, the random seed is fixed. So if you load a game and resolve the turn several times, all random events should show the same behaviour.

Cheers
Norbert


Thanks Norbert
I assume then If I move 1 unit differently I can expect a different outcome for events firing - even if the unit has no connection to the event?

Cheers, Chris

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lodilefty
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Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:46 pm

Hobbes wrote:Thanks Norbert
I assume then If I move 1 unit differently I can expect a different outcome for events firing - even if the unit has no connection to the event?

Cheers, Chris


AFAIK, yes. I've even seen a change in posture or ROE change the result...

It can be anywhere in the game, not just the battle in question. I think the 'save' created when you execute is part of the seed generation process.
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Primasprit
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Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:43 am

Hobbes wrote:Thanks Norbert
I assume then If I move 1 unit differently I can expect a different outcome for events firing - even if the unit has no connection to the event?

Cheers, Chris

As lodilefty already stated: Yes, exactly this is the case.

Cheers
Norbert

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Hobbes
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Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:44 pm

I have a first turn where almost every unit is locked. In any case if I don't move any units at all I'm seeing events fire differently during the first turn resolution each time I start a new game. The events I'm most interested in at this point are to do with Indians gaining access to certain forts through subterfuge (the fort is changed into a settlement for one turn).

This is working very well - but not what I expected after our conversation above. Just thought I would mention this. There is no need to move units to get a different random effect then?

Cheers, Chris

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lodilefty
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Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:46 pm

Hobbes wrote:I have a first turn where almost every unit is locked. In any case if I don't move any units at all I'm seeing events fire differently during the first turn resolution each time I start a new game. The events I'm most interested in at this point are to do with Indians gaining access to certain forts through subterfuge (the fort is changed into a settlement for one turn).

This is working very well - but not what I expected after our conversation above. Just thought I would mention this. There is no need to move units to get a different random effect then?

Cheers, Chris


AFAIK, First turn only is truly randomized. Then, subsequent turns follow the discussion as above....
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Pocus
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Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:41 am

hear hear!
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

tagwyn
AGEod Guard of Honor
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Random Seed?!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:28 pm

IMHO - much to be dreaded and avoided!! Seed should only go where it is intended!! LOL :p apy:

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Gray_Lensman
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Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:11 pm

tagwyn wrote:IMHO - much to be dreaded and avoided!! Seed should only go where it is intended!! LOL :p apy:


Random seed is a common computer term/function used in almost all computer programming languages. Posts like these only work towards making you appear like a blabbering fool!

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Gray_Lensman
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Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:25 am

Primasprit wrote:Yes, this was done to for the testing, to have different battle results when loading from a saved game. Aside from this I am not sure if it is needed.

Cheers
Norbert


I would definitely not put this in the normal game and we should maybe not discuss how it was done for AACW since this thread is open for anyone to see. Wouldn't want for it to get out of control.

tagwyn
AGEod Guard of Honor
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Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:03 pm

GL: If you want to call me a "blabbering fool," it is within your rights to do so! I was merely trying to be funny. I know exactly what you are referring to! Ad hominen comments are uncalled for at all times. Thank you for all your work for AGEOD! I am truly sorry I offended you. t

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Adlertag
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Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:32 pm

Interesting discussion here.
Are we speaking of random number generator or more probably pseudo-random number generator ?
It's certainly not an easy task to have a true random number generator because numbers calculated by a computer through a deterministic process, cannot, by definition, be random.
Unless the numbers are generated by a process fundamentally governed by an inherent uncertainty like radioactive decay or similar true random process.
But finally, a game doesn't need such precision level (?).
La mort est un mur, mourir est une brèche.

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