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James D Burns
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Naval moves going overland

Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:15 am

I noticed it's possible to move a naval unit from port to port, so you can move across land. The Delaware peninsula is a good example, you can move from one side to the other without having to sail around it. If it was simply required that units enter or leave a port from a water area, it would fix the problem I think. As it is now they can move directly from port to port without going into a water area, so there are far too many examples of the problems it creates to list.

Jim

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PhilThib
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Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:36 am

We shall do a complete check of all these situation once more as of next monday :indien: :tournepas
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Pocus
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Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:08 am

Is 'Invoke Gray_Lensman' working in the context of WIA ;)
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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lodilefty
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Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:38 pm

Pocus wrote:Is 'Invoke Gray_Lensman' working in the context of WIA ;)


It can be, if we define the associated text string as 'LodiLefty' :)

I have seen this and corrected as I go. If two adjacent land regions both have a port, the naval units go 'port to port' directly. I 'just' have to go through ExMap putting in navalinterdict links in these places. [During Beta, I fixed the 'Boston to New Bedford canal' :niark: ]

Keep the list coming!
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lodilefty
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Map errata

Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:46 pm

Please post here any corrections you'd like to see on the map.

Keep in mind: changing the name of a REGION is not practical at this point..

We can, however, fix such things as:

  • Physical postitioning of a structure or port
  • The infamous 'ships over land' movement
  • The not-so infamous 'land units crossing large bodies of water' movement.
  • The 'type of crossing' to regulate movement time between regions.


Thank you! :)
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lodilefty
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Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:33 pm

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GlobalExplorer
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River connections Montreal -> Lake Ontario?

Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:08 pm

I have a problem understanding river access around montreal. Montreal harbor is connected with Lac de Montreal (North to Lawrence) but not with Rapides de Lachine (South to Lake Ontario). This means if I want to get to Lake Ontario I can use my bateaux to transport troops to Montreal but from there on they have to march through the wilderness, which will almost annihilate my infantry.

As I have never visited Canada myself, is there really no shipping route into Lake Ontario or is this a bug? Yes I noticed that rapides could mean rapids, which might answer my question ;)

I hope my screenshots explains more than words what I mean:

Image

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lodilefty
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Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:13 pm

I have a problem understanding river access around montreal. Montreal harbor is connected with Lac de Montreal (North to Lawrence) but not with Rapides de Lachine (South to Lake Ontario). This means if I want to get to Lake Ontario I can use my bateaux to transport troops to Montreal but from there on they have to march through the wilderness, which will almost annihilate my infantry.


Moved to Map thread.

Yes, this is one of the links missed. Will fix.

Thank you! :)
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GlobalExplorer
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Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:38 pm

Cool, thanks.

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PhilThib
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Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:33 pm

GlobalExplorer wrote:As I have never visited Canada myself, is there really no shipping route into Lake Ontario or is this a bug? Yes I noticed that rapides could mean rapids, which might answer my question ;)


Yes, the rapids do not allow naval movement. Indeed, land transbordment was needed in Lachine...you could not sail down the Saint Laurent from Montreal pas there... :indien:
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GShock
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Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:56 pm

I had expected somethign like that, that's why i didnt point it out. That's basically the first move of the British in WiA and it wasn't possible to make a mistake in the translinks and overlook it. :nuts:
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GlobalExplorer
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Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:17 am

I would then suggest to at least make the rapid graphically visible, as was very nicely done at Niagara Falls. Right now Rapides de Lachine looks absolutely shippeable! Don't forget there are also noobs to who have not time to play until they know all regions by heart!

Farfarer2
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:30 pm

There is now a canal and locks there.
Farfarer

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lodilefty
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Farfarer2 wrote:There is now a canal and locks there.


Now as in the St. Lawrence Seaway?

....or "now" as in the game?

....I'm so easily confused, ya know! :tournepas
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FM WarB
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:34 pm

Is there a way t get ships and bateaux from Montreal to Lake Champlain? (And I dont even want to send Gentleman Johnny to Quebec)

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PhilThib
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:08 pm

Historically there was none, at least not easily...because of the rapids at Chambly on the Richelieu river... but there could have made some portage, I am unsure...

IIRC, the fleets operating on the Champlain were built...on the Champlain (either at Isle aux Noix in the North or at Ticonderoga in the south) :indien:
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lodilefty
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:00 pm

PhilThib wrote:Historically there was none, at least not easily...because of the rapids at Chambly on the Richelieu river... but there could have made some portage, I am unsure...

IIRC, the fleets operating on the Champlain were built...on the Champlain (either at Isle aux Noix in the North or at Ticonderoga in the south) :indien:


I was toyng with a LongTransitionLink there to represent portage, but it is on my back burner for now....

Learning to use te new AI commands from Pocus is top of my list! :coeurs:
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FM WarB
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Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:54 am

[quote="lodilefty"]I was toyng with a LongTransitionLink there to represent portage, but it is on my back burner for now....[quote]

Then I have even more reason to want to send Burgoyne elsewhere. I am sorry to hear that a portage link was not included here. Are the other ones such as Ticonderoga, Fort Stanwix also not included?

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lodilefty
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Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:51 am

FM WarB wrote:
lodilefty wrote:I was toyng with a LongTransitionLink there to represent portage, but it is on my back burner for now....

Then I have even more reason to want to send Burgoyne elsewhere. I am sorry to hear that a portage link was not included here. Are the other ones such as Ticonderoga, Fort Stanwix also not included?


Yet. ;)

Mohawk is navigable from Albany to Stanwix [or Ft. Bull in FIW ;) ]
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Kotik
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Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:54 am

I dont know if this is the right place to report this but here I go anyway.

In the F&I war scenario the province of bigbee (id#685) are from the start not controlled by anyone. small issue I know but if you have the time and are in the file why not fix it? :D

It is the same with province Temiscamingue (id#177).

And province Mont DOr (id#163) is just a grey area.
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RamBow
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Inter-Harbors Transfers

Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:27 am

Perhaps that is not a news: when we have two harbors in touching regions ships with their load can move from harbor to harbor directly if WIA supposes such way shorter than with waterways. First attachment shows short way to Alexandria - via Annapolis harbor. It seems shorter than through Potomac mouth - attachment 2 (made manually). Works for other harbors (Albany-Kingston, for instance). Patch 1.01b Montcalm Scenario.

Perhaps all is OK but personally for me it looks unnaturally, sorry.
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PhilThib
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Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:35 am

A map link mistake / omission that will be fixed in next patch. Thanks for spotting :8o:
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lodilefty
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Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:43 am

RamBow wrote:Perhaps that is not a news: when we have two harbors in touching regions ships with their load can move from harbor to harbor directly if WIA supposes such way shorter than with waterways. First attachment shows short way to Alexandria - via Annapolis harbor. It seems shorter than through Potomac mouth - attachment 2 (made manually). Works for other harbors (Albany-Kingston, for instance). Patch 1.01b Montcalm Scenario.

Perhaps all is OK but personally for me it looks unnaturally, sorry.


Albany Kingston fixed [for next patch]

Alexandria-Annapolis already has a link [River Crossing].
ExMap won't let me put in a second link there [navalinterdiction] :(
Should I do it by editing the region files directly?
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Chief Rudiger
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Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:36 pm

RE: The not-so infamous 'land units crossing large bodies of water' movement.

I peaked at the A.I's turn once and saw it had ordered a move from Long Island province to maybe New London or Middleton, on its way to Boston.

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LMUBill
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Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:32 pm

This is probably not really a map item but the game has the Creek Indians in Kentucky. They were actually in Alabama and Georgia. The area of Kentucky in the map was basically Cherokee or Shawnee territory... depending on which nation you were speaking to. Both nations hunted there but there weren't any real towns there during the period WIA covers.

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lodilefty
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Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:29 am

LMUBill wrote:This is probably not really a map item but the game has the Creek Indians in Kentucky. They were actually in Alabama and Georgia. The area of Kentucky in the map was basically Cherokee or Shawnee territory... depending on which nation you were speaking to. Both nations hunted there but there weren't any real towns there during the period WIA covers.


Hi!

I'll be delighted to look at this. :thumbsup:

Which Scenario(s)?

..and what specific region or regions [by name, with UID # if possible] would you suggest for their 'relocation'?
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LMUBill
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Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:22 am

lodilefty wrote:Hi!

I'll be delighted to look at this. :thumbsup:

Which Scenario(s)?

..and what specific region or regions [by name, with UID # if possible] would you suggest for their 'relocation'?


Sorry for the delay.....

It's there in pretty much every scenario I've seen so far, even ones not involving it.

The Creek village is in Apalachee (which on the map would be in modern-day Kentucky) A more accurate location would be way further south in Talladega. The map's Talladega is close to where the battle of Horseshoe Bend was fought and is historically the heartland of the creeks.

Speaking of Horseshoe Bend, maybe someone who can change/add towns to the map could create a scenario around Creek War or mix in the Creek War with a War of 1812 scenario since the Creek War was a part of the War od 1812.

lordhoff
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Map Naming Error

Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:12 pm

So minor but I'm told you guys like perfection :D . In the Seven Years War campaign (maybe others, I'm working my way through chronologically and haven't gotten past that point yet), since I grew up in Harrisburg, PA, I'm pretty sure Cumberland (County) and Harris Ferry (later, Harrisburg) are reversed. Harris Ferry should be on the east bank and Cumberland on the west bank. I think the easy way for you to double check this is with a current map - look for New Cumberland or Cumberland County and Harrisburg or Dauphin County. http://pennsylvania.hometownlocator.com/maps/countymap,cfips,043,c,dauphin.cfm

OK, I think I have this figured out. I believe you confused the Juniata River with the West Branch of the Susquehanna River. Northcumberland County is two counties north of Dauphin County (but still on the west bank) where the west branch combines with the north branch (Sunbury). The northernmost portion of Dauphin County has the major tributary of the Susquehanna, the Juniata River, entering from the west at Duncannon/Fort Hunter. Both this river and the west branch have headwaters in the Allegheny Mountains. If you have a mind to, I'd suggest changing area Northcumberland to Harris Ferry and area Harris Ferry to Cumberland.

I also have doubts that the upper Susquehanna River area in the game was ever navigable by bateau. Just northwest of the Harris Ferry, the river cuts through the mountains and the cut is shallow and very rocky - probably rapids prior to the dam in Harrisburg. Perhaps an Indian trail allowed portage but for game purposes, likely not passable.

I have to say I am amazed at the amount of research that must have went into just the map - no short cuts for you guys :thumbsup:

lordhoff
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Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:31 pm

LMUBill wrote:Sorry for the delay.....

It's there in pretty much every scenario I've seen so far, even ones not involving it.

The Creek village is in Apalachee (which on the map would be in modern-day Kentucky) A more accurate location would be way further south in Talladega. The map's Talladega is close to where the battle of Horseshoe Bend was fought and is historically the heartland of the creeks.

Speaking of Horseshoe Bend, maybe someone who can change/add towns to the map could create a scenario around Creek War or mix in the Creek War with a War of 1812 scenario since the Creek War was a part of the War od 1812.


Found this: The Shawnee had more to do with Kentucky in early times than any other tribe, but maintained few villages in the State for a long period. Their more permanent settlements were farther south about Nashville. At one Shawnee town, located for a short time near Lexington, Ky., the noted Shawnee chief, Blackhoof, was born. The tribe crossed and recrossed the State several times in its history and used it still more frequently as a hunting ground. (See Tennessee.)

Chickasaw

The westernmost end of Kentucky was claimed by the Chickasaw, and at a very early period they had a settlement on the lower course of Tennessee River, either in Kentucky or Tennessee.

Cherokee

The Cherokee claimed some land in southeastern Kentucky and traces of culture of Cherokee type are said to be found in archeological remains along the upper course of the Cumberland, but no permanent Cherokee settlement is known to have existed in historic times within this State

at: http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/kentucky/index.htm

Creeks (from a different site: http://www.muscogeenation-nsn.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10&Itemid=12);

Throughout the period of contact with Europeans, most of the Muscogee population was concentrated into two geographical areas. The English called the Muscogee peoples occupying the towns on the Coosa and the Tallapoosa rivers, Upper Creeks, and those to the southeast, on the Chattahoochee and Flint rivers, the Lower Creeks. The distinction was purely geographical. Due in part to their proximity to the English, the Lower towns were substantially effected by intermarriage and its consequent impact on their political and social order. The Upper towns remained less effected by European influences and continued to maintain distinctly traditional political and social institutions.

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