lycortas2
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Posts: 198
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city size redux

Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:56 pm

Is there a reason that Salem, MA, is size 4 with a size 4 port, population 4,000 or so, while Bahsten, MA, is size 2 with a size 2 port? Boston had about 13,000-14,000 people NOT including Dorchester.

I noticed this as Gage's army starves to death before Howe even arrives! This is ludicrous! I fixed this in my version but there are piles of mistakes in city size throughout the database.
As an example New York and Philadelphia are way too big.

Mike

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lodilefty
Posts: 7545
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:27 pm
Location: Finger Lakes, NY GMT -5 US Eastern

Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:48 pm

City sizes are not a simple population indicator.
Also taken into account are Economy [supply and ammo sources] and GeoPolitical importance.

Thus New York and Philly are 'bigger'...

The Boston area is a special case:

  • In the original release, Boston was part of the region now called "The Heights, and was bigger [and Salem/Cambridge were smaller]
  • This caused a somewhat ahistorical situation: The Brits could sit forever inside Boston, but the Rebels couldn't sustain the siege due to poor supply!
  • Additionally, British ships could freely sail in and out of port with no fear of any emplaced artillery nearby [the infamous "Double Adjacncy Rule": aka "DAR"]
  • Our solution
    • Create a separate region for Boston, and another for Boston Harbor
    • Reduce size of Boston to recreate the supply dilemma faced by Gage and Howe
    • Increase size of nearby towns, thus "distributiing" the Economic and Geopolitical value of the Boston Area
    • Add a blocking link so troops in boston can only move toward The Heights [forcing use of amphibious ops to attack north: can you say Bunker Hill?]
    • Add a Major River Crossing link between Boston and The Heights to simulate the difficulty of attacking across the Boston Neck
    • Boston Harbor adds a water region adjacent to The Heights, so the DAR works to interdict shipping
    • Reduce British supply units to fewer elements in the setup, to prevent easy building of a Depot
    • Establish Rebels as well fortified force on the heights. They can now build a Depot to survive there, and artillery can be moved there to interdict shipping.
    • The AI couldn't figure out what to do as GBR, so the "Boston Evacuation" AI-only event set was added.


So, Gage "starving" is WAD.
City sizes are WAD.
Always ask yourself: "Am I part of the Solution?" If you aren't, then you are part of the Problem!
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lycortas2
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Posts: 198
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Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:21 pm

Lodilefty, you know i support your hard work, and you live in one of my favorite places. But, i am calling you on this one; This makes the map look ridiculous and creates far to much of a supply problem for the British. When Howe arrives I have no problem with Britain having a supply problem but as it stands Gage's 2,500 men starve to death before Howe arrives. You darn well better have Howe active in June or July to attack the Heights otherwise it is too late and you start taking hits from starvation.

Two wrongs does not make a right. Or in this case Salem being size 4 is not a good thing.

admin edit: language, please

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lodilefty
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Location: Finger Lakes, NY GMT -5 US Eastern

Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:09 pm

The design has stood the test of time since patch 1.05 in September 2009.

The beauty of AGE games is moddability. Enjoy your mod.
Always ask yourself: "Am I part of the Solution?" If you aren't, then you are part of the Problem!
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Durk
Posts: 2495
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:36 am
Location: Wyoming

Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:55 am

The British do have options other than Gage starving. Current game play is really close to historical.
Remember, the British had to evacuate Boston.

lycortas2
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Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:57 am

Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:32 am

Durk, the British in no way shape or form had to evacuate Boston due to supply issues. They evacuated after Knox brought in 24lb's from Ticonderoga which could have been used to fire at ships entering or exiting Boston harbour. Until then the British had no problem supplying their forces.

But Lodilefty thinks this is accurate, having the British starve WITHOUT A BLOCKADE! That kind of attitude just disgusts me.

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Durk
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Location: Wyoming

Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:02 am

Having Gage starve is not my experience, that is what I am saying.
You have options to keep this from happening.
Do not explore a single option.

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