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Ebbingford
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Canadian Militia upgrades

Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:26 pm

Squarian and I aborted a pbem game of the 1755 Col variant scenario due to the upgrading of the Canadian militia units. Previously these did not upgrade at all, it was the normal militia units that upgraded to Troops de marine. These Canadian militia units are now upgrading to 4 element light infantry types, the most powerful unit in the game. This has severely unbalanced this scenario.
The final straw came in our game when we had a battle and I realised that the French had fielded 8 units of these light infantry. As the Brits you get 2 in the whole theatre. You can't fight against them as the Brits.
This scenario is now so unbalanced that the French actually get stronger the longer the game goes on. The British just can not match the numbers of light infantry that the French can put into the field. When you factor in the movement advantage that these troops have, plus the supply needs, plus the advantage in combat in non clear terrain, it is now an unwinable contest.
If these units are meant to be upgrading like this then perhaps there should be a cap on how many are allowed in existance at any one time? I think 9 plus is way too many!!!
Aren't the couriers meant to represent the light infantry way of fighting of the Canadian militia anyway?

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lodilefty
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:15 am

This change was made because the original upgrade was to the Troupes de Marine, and deemed inappropriate by historians...

You two are the experts on balance for this, so choices are:
1. Remove upgrade path. [however, GBR militia upgrade to Trained Provincials in this scenario]
2. Upgrade to Couriers. [but then they can't capture cities or forts, which AFAIK is why we didn't do this]
3. Reduce the parameters of CAN light Infantry to look more like COL Provos or Troupes de Marine
4. Put CAN Lt Inf on the AutoRaise list, with a moderate disband rate. [but then you might get a "free one" or two..]
5. Revert to original Troupes de Marine upgrade.
6. Write some [nasty?] events that count the number of CAN Lt Inf, and apply a "kill" probability above a certain number.
7. Some combination of these....

I lean to a combination of 3 and 4, with the AutoRaise activated upon arrival of the first French Leader with Training ability... [Levis in 1756 as part of MontCalm reinforcements]
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Narwhal
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Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:01 pm

I did not test with the new upgrade rule, but it seems logical that it unbalances the game.

Would it be possible to have the training of French troops only train ONE element instead of two at the same time (I remember they are "levels" in traits, so you would make the level 1 "Trainer" trait train one element at a time, and make all leaders with the trainer trait except the French trainers level 2 )? This way, "trained" French would be more powerful than before, but much less.

Alternaly, would it be possible to creat ea new element / unit for the French called "Trained Militia", with Light Infantry type but significantly worst stats than "normal" Light Inf ?

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squarian
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Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:31 pm

Another suggestion (in a crowded field - sorry!):

The only way I produced so many Lt Inf in that game with Ebbingford was by parking the sole leader with training ability (the Chevalier de Levis) in Montreal for nearly the entire game and having him do nothing but train up the militia. That alone acts as some kind of compensation - he's a very good leader whose abilities are effectively sacrificed to pull this off. On the other hand, I do agree with Ebbingford that this stratagem unbalances the game.

But what if Levis were only able to train up for part of the game? Say, for the first two years after arrival? The choice then becomes: gain some better quality troops or use Levis while the French still have the edge, but with a finite limit to his training ability. The French player then has to decide: benefit now (Levis in the field) or benefit later (more Lt Inf).

Of course, it would require some mod: two separate Levis models and events to switch them a la Prince Ferdinand in ROP or Sir Henry Clinton in BOA/AWI, I guess?

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lodilefty
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Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:36 pm

squarian wrote:Another suggestion (in a crowded field - sorry!):

The only way I produced so many Lt Inf in that game with Ebbingford was by parking the sole leader with training ability (the Chevalier de Levis) in Montreal for nearly the entire game and having him do nothing but train up the militia. That alone acts as some kind of compensation - he's a very good leader whose abilities are effectively sacrificed to pull this off. On the other hand, I do agree with Ebbingford that this stratagem unbalances the game.

But what if Levis were only able to train up for part of the game? Say, for the first two years after arrival? The choice then becomes: gain some better quality troops or use Levis while the French still have the edge, but with a finite limit to his training ability. The French player then has to decide: benefit now (Levis in the field) or benefit later (more Lt Inf).

Of course, it would require some mod: two separate Levis models and events to switch them a la Prince Ferdinand in ROP or Sir Henry Clinton in BOA/AWI, I guess?


i'm testing a very simple change: CAN Lt Inf now subject to disbanding evey winter: 50% probability [similar to Militia]
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Ebbingford
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Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:38 pm

lodilefty wrote:i'm testing a very simple change: CAN Lt Inf now subject to disbanding evey winter: 50% probability [similar to Militia]



That would at least ensure that the Canadian forces don't keep on growing. :)

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lodilefty
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Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:21 pm

When I compare the Courier and CAN Lt Inf models, there's very little difference in combat value, so I think the AutoRaise disbanding should go most of the way to fix this...
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marechalCAMBRONNE
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Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:30 am

As the one who initally suggested the change, let me defend it a bit. During the war, Canadian mobilised 40 000 militas men on a population of less than 100 000 people ( by the way the biggest civilian mobilisation of history), effectives were never a problem. The problem was the logistic. What convinced Montcalm of his disastreous idea to retreat from new france to protect only the modern quebec area was the lack of supplies to continue to sustain his troops outside the agricultural hearth of New France.

Another important factor was the fighting abilities of the Canadians militias, that were very much feared by the English. Trained to fight in the "petite guerre" like the indians, good ambushers (just look at the Monongahela battle where washington was beaten with Braddock) and pretty much efficient, when properly trained, in line battle (look at the battle of Sainte Foy). But I agree that the light line infantry is really strong. The auto disband idea is good...but another idea that appeal to me is to make Levis upgrade.

So, for the first part of the war, Levis could train militias to become 2 elements courriers that don't disband (2 elements replacing the 4 elements militias)
for the second part (let's say: if Montcalm die or Fort Carillon and Louisbourg fall) Levis begin to train the militias as light infantry.

marechalCAMBRONNE
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Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:33 pm

So, what does the designers says?

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lodilefty
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Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:54 am

CAN Lite Infantry will disband ala Militia, and also have Ability 'Canadian', reducing their effectiveness outside of Canada Theater
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Ebbingford
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Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:10 am

That sounds better. :thumbsup:

marechalCAMBRONNE
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Sun May 13, 2012 2:55 am

I'm not convinced with the Canadian trait. Militiamen during all the war served (and served well) in all theater of operation.

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