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Hohenlohe
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New Military Options possible??

Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:16 am

I want to suggest that the British should get some new Military Options like the following:
Buy Siege Artillery for 15 EPs
Buy Cannon >one Artillery for 10 EPs or two for 16EPs arriving in Halifax
Dragoons >one Dragoon Cavalry unit for 16 EPs arriving in Halifax

Why should the British not get such options.They had historically enough resources for Artillery and Cavalry at home.

The American should get a new option too:

Volunteers > one regular infantry regiment for 15EPs in a friendly harbor

Historically they got some volunteers from Europe(French and Polish etc.) before the French Expedition Force arrived.

heartly greetings

Hohenlohe,who hopes for some improvements... :siffle:
R.I.P. Henry D.

In Remembrance of my Granduncle Hans Weber, a Hungaro-German Soldier,served in Austro-Hungarian Forces during WWI,war prisoner, missed in Sibiria 1918...

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lodilefty
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Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:59 am

Excellent ideas :)
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Offworlder
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Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:22 pm

Hohenlohe wrote:I want to suggest that the British should get some new Military Options like the following:
Buy Siege Artillery for 15 EPs
Buy Cannon >one Artillery for 10 EPs or two for 16EPs arriving in Halifax
Dragoons >one Dragoon Cavalry unit for 16 EPs arriving in Halifax

Why should the British not get such options.They had historically enough resources for Artillery and Cavalry at home.

The American should get a new option too:

Volunteers > one regular infantry regiment for 15EPs in a friendly harbor

Historically they got some volunteers from Europe(French and Polish etc.) before the French Expedition Force arrived.

heartly greetings

Hohenlohe,who hopes for some improvements... :siffle:


Maybe the French and Polish volunteers might arrive with Lafayette and the Polish generals? One of the Polish guys is specifically mentioned at the head of a force of light cavalry and infantry if I'm not mistaken.

BTW why don't we include more "free" naval reinforcements for the Americans? They tend to operate with understrength flotillas throughout the war.

Chief Rudiger
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Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:41 pm

Could an option be added to build Bateaux on L. Champlain/Ontario/Erie similar to the regional amnesty/loyalty options in the AWI scenario. In the F&IW scenario i had my Ontario Bateaux captured during a siege and am now really stuck for mobility. Similarly, waiting for date scripted events to occur is kind of constrictive. Historically, Bateaux were something "easily" built when the situation demanded.

I'm thinking they should be created automatically, by event, some months after the player first occupies a lake side region with harbour (+ depot). The player should get a message saying Bateaux will be built if the area is contolled for x turns, with x number of units there. As long as such a region is held an EP reinforcement option should be made available, say every april, to build more Bateaux for the upcoming campaign season.

That way you get them once for free, in each lake theatre, as long as you've not triggerred the event before. If you have triggerred it, and lost them like me, then you can use EP to build more. IMHO this adds accuracy for a small price in complexity (to the player).

From what i understand of the game's event files the former is pretty easy to code, if one fully understands it, which i dont. I'm not sure how easy the later would be.

Wha'd'ya think?

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PhilThib
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Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:09 am

Looks like a good idea... if the core members of the beta team can do it, that's good. May be you could start by providing them with data that will save time (like regions ID and names for bateau building location, cost in EP, text for all the 'messages', etc...) :)
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Hok
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Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:48 am

and respawn frequency too !

I stay tuned on this topic.

Chief Rudiger
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Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:40 am

The following information has been drawn from the below site. It illustrates my point.

http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/historic/articles/bateau.htm

Bateaux, sometimes called "Schenectady Bateaux" or "Schenectady boats," because they were constructed at that village for use on the Mohawk River and ultimately the Great Lakes

Spawn at Albany?

In 1755, Gerret Lansing, of Albany, supplied "oars ...Large Padles...short Padles and Poles with Iron [tips]" for Bateaux to be used in the campaign against Crown Point. (12) In 1758, orders for the expedition against Ticonderoga required "Commanding officers & Regiments to employ their carpenters in making oars, paddles, & scoops," for bailing the Bateaux, since "Each boat will be allow'd from Colonel Bradstreet, only five oars."

The very simplicity of the Bateaux permitted them to be built in large numbers by unskilled or semi-skilled workers and to be readily maintained and repaired or replaced in the field with relative ease

Spawn if, Albany controlled (for supplies), at lakeside region with harbour if a suitably large number of you units have been there for x turns.

First authorized in 1755 by Sir William Shirley, the batteaumen were raised and commanded by Captain (later Lt. Col.) John Bradstreet(36)and were responsible for the construction and operation of the thousands of Bateaux that moved the supplies, equipment, and men of the British and colonial forces up and down the Hudson/Champlain and Mohawk River corridors

Spawn only if Bradstreet batteaumen event has occurred and batteaumen unit has been in lakeside region with harbour, for x turns, to provide the labour.

Bradstreet and his batteaumen played a significant role in the campaign of 1758 from the very beginning. Despite myriad difficulties, 250 bateaux were constructed at Albany before the end of March and Bradstreet confidently promised an additional 1,200 completions by mid-May. By 22 May 1758, he had delivered, as promised, 1,500 Bateaux. This means that Bradstreet was supervising the completion of 120 Bateaux per week at Albany during the two month period April-May 1758, a remarkable achievement.

This gives an impression of the rate of Bateaux production. How the number of real life Bateaux correspond to in game units could be judged from the size of the 1758 forces, in real life and in game. The "myriad difficulties" might require the spawning region to have a depot.

The early months of 1759 saw Bradstreet back in Albany, involved again in preparations for the coming spring campaign and "the tasks he knew so well - bateaux building, procuring bateau-men, carpenters, wagoners & ox team drivers."

Reinforces that Bateaux were a staple, just as much as supply units.

So, from this information alone, my event forumla would be along the lines of...

Check whether the Bradstreet's Bateaumen event has occurred, and if so, then:

Check whether Albany is controlled and if so, then:

Start timer when any harbour on L. Champlain/George/Ontario is controlled and inhabited by a unit of Bateaumen and has a depot.

Notify player to keep Bateaumen in region x for x turns.

In the following turns,

Check which of the regions, above, have been inhabited by a unit of Bateaumen for x turns.

Creat units in those regions which satisfy the above.


As for player contolled EP costing reinforcements, i think the same rule might be a bit complicated, what with the player being notified when the conditions are satisfied and then loosing the ability if they then move the Bateaumen away. Simpler i think would be to just check whether the Bradstreet and Albany conditions are satisfied and then spawn them in Albany.



Thoughts?

Chief Rudiger
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Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:03 am

In addition, portage links between Champlain/Ontario and the Hudson/Mowhawk would be required for the Albany spawing EP Bateaux to be of much use.

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lodilefty
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Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:13 am

Check whether the Bradstreet's Bateaumen event has occurred, and if so, then:

Check whether Albany is controlled and if so, then:

Start timer when any harbour on L. Champlain/George/Ontario is controlled and inhabited by a unit of Bateaumen and has a depot.

Notify player to keep Bateaumen in region x for x turns.

In the following turns,

Check which of the regions, above, have been inhabited by a unit of Bateaumen for x turns.

Creat units in those regions which satisfy the above.


Excellent! Let me 'clear some bugs' and look at this [subject to Hok's approval of course ;) ]


In addition, portage links between Champlain/Ontario and the Hudson/Mowhawk would be required for the Albany spawing EP Bateaux to be of much use.


This requires some 'engine code' as the current map would allow portage 'over' regions that may not be controlled. It's 'on the list', so all is not lost!!! :)

:thumbsup: :coeurs:
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Chief Rudiger
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Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:29 am

lodilefty wrote:This requires some 'engine code' as the current map would allow portage 'over' regions that may not be controlled. It's 'on the list', so all is not lost!!! :)

:thumbsup: :coeurs:


Thanks,

I hoped the portage thing was in the works,

This reminds me of the following incident, covered in the above link, quoted here for interest:

"On 3 July 1756, Bradstreet again left Oswego for Schenectady with 350 Bateaux and about 1,000 batteaumen. Eight miles from the post the convoy fell into an ambush. The French and Indian force, consisting of about 180 French marines, 450 Canadian militia, and 100 Indians, lay in wait on the north side of the Oswego river. Allowing the first few Bateaux to pass unmolested, they struck the advance body of the convoy which included Bradstreet and about 300 Batteaumen.(46)

Bradstreet and his batteaumen recovered quickly from the initial surprise. Bradstreet himself, with six men, occupied a small island and from it beat back three attempts by the French to cross the river. His stubborn defense covered the remaining batteaumen, giving them time to get ashore on the south side of the river where hasty defensive positions were organized. Bradstreet then withdrew to the safety of the south shore. There he was informed that the French were attempting to flank him by crossing the river about a mile upstream. Hurriedly collecting some 250 batteaumen, Bradstreet hastened to the threatened point, hoping to prevent the French crossing, only to find about 400 French and Indians had already crossed.

Bradstreet attacked without hesitation, driving the enemy back to the river where "the Battoemen having now a fair View of them, took them down fast; and here it was that the Enemy sustained their greatest loss."(47) Pursuing the French across the river, the batteaumen found the entire French party had withdrawn "in the utmost Haste and Confusion, for they had left behind their Packs, Blankets and Provisions."(48) British casualties in the three-hour engagement were twenty men killed and twenty-four wounded, mostly in the opening fusillade. Bradstreet estimated the number of French and Indian dead at over one hundred, though the French commander, Captain de Villiers, reported "we lost in this affair a colony officer, six Canadians and colony soldiers and one Indian."


Might it then be possible to portage through regions but risk being pulled out of warp and suffer an automatic ambushed?

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lodilefty
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Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:43 am

Might it then be possible to portage through regions but risk being pulled out of warp and suffer an automatic ambushed?


Exactly te issue that 'needs code'. :D
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