AGEOD Forums

Goodaye,

I have a few questions. One quick and easy, one not so. Bear with me.

1.Each unit has a 'combat efficiency' number underneath it's Nato symbol. Is this some kind of compiled number from the units stats? What part does it play in combat?

2.Supply. I'm confused. Taking the Pequot Indian War scenario , playing the British, I find that Boston has a 'current supply level 15'. Is this general supply points or full supply chits?

According to the manual it should generate 2 full SC's for being a Lvl 2 city plus another 2 full SC's for being a lvl 2 port making a total of 4 full SC's or 4 x 5 = 20 general supply points. How does this tie in with the 'current supply level 15'?

Looking at the settlement of Providence. It is a level 1 port, a settlement and a depot which should give me (as per manual) 5 + 5 + 10 = 20 supply points but the tool tip tells me it has a 'current supply level 27'. Huh?

So now I activate the supply filter. Providence has 9 crates stacked up beside it, which, as per manual, gives me roughly 9 x 50 = 450 accumulated general supply points. Yet the manual also tells me that SC's don't accumulate from one turn to another so how does Providence get the big stack of crates? Perhaps this is set by the scenario. If that's the case is it increasing +27 general supply points (less usage) per turn? Can I draw down on the big stack of supply for my troops?


Please don't take this post as criticism as I'm enjoying the game but I am having trouble tying some of the bits together.

Cheers,
Plugger

#1: The number is an overall reflection of strength and cohesion. I think of it as 'combat efficiency'. It's an indicator, but AFAIK is not used per se in combat...

#2: I struggle with understanding the supply levels also....

[INDENT]AFAIK, the number displayed is 'Supply Chips'

I don't know all the inner workings and calculations, but I do know:
[INDENT]Weather modifies all these values
Adjacent regions also can contribute to supply[/INDENT]
..and I'm guessing:
[INDENT]The 50 per crate may be a manual typo
There may be a bug [/INDENT][/INDENT]Sorry to be so vague....
I hope this helps.

Goodaye,

O.K, thanks for the info on combat efficiency. That makes sense. It's just a compilation number for quick reference like the 'Power' figure for a stack.

You seem as confused as I am regarding supply. Can you get the drums and voodoo dolls out and fire up the 'Pocus spell'. Perhaps the magician himself can shed some light on the subject?

Cheers,
Plugger

Pocus is on vacation. Perhaps Rafe or JW or Arslan could help as well. Or, Phil T even. apy:

Stay tuned. I have a request in to a reliable source....

Goodaye,

I've been doing some more investigation and the mystery deepens. To test supply I fired up the Pequot Indian War Scenario (it's short) as the British, didn't move anyone, processed the turns and recorded the following.

Supply Levels @ Start of turn as shown in the tooltips
Turn T0 / T1 / T2 / T3 / T4
Boston 16 / 15 / 17 / 15 / 16
Providence 28 / 27 / 28 / 27 / 28
Hartford 6 / 5 / 7 / 5 / 6

The above indicates that the supply levels are changing due to the weather as this is the only change occuring, turn to turn.

Weather state was as follows...

Harsh / Harsh / Clear / V.Harsh / Harsh

Which gives a direct corelation of sorts between the severity of the weather and the supply level of a structure.

However... Searching through the BoA forums I find that the tooltip 'supply level' indicator for a structure in a region refers to Supply Chits. Which is well and good but I can't see how any of the three structures arrive at the above SC levels given the manuals guidance on what each is worth.

For example Boston is a Lvl 2 City and a Lvl 2 Port which gives 2 + 2 = 4 SC's yet it shows up as 'supply level 28'. Similiar inconsistencies exist for the other two mentioned above. It's possible that the stated supply level incorporates surrounding regions as well in it's tooltip amount but in this scenario none of the regions have adjacent regions under friendly control that are available to provide additional supply.

By doing the same test with the Supply filter on (actually done at the same time for consistency) I get the following results regarding the number of stockpiled 'crates' at each location

number of supply crates shown in the supply filter
turns T0 / T1 / T2 / T3 / T4
Boston 0 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 0
Providence 9 / 9 / 9 / 9 / 9
Hartford 1 / 1 / 2 / 1 / 2

Providence, with it's 9 supply crates, is a depot. I'm going to take a punt and guess that 9 is the maximum number of crates (each worth 50 general supply points according to the manual) allowed at any location. So there is no change as it is already maxed out.

As Providence had 9 crates right at the start of the scenario it's probably reasonable to assume that this has been set by the scenario designer.

Boston has none. At any time. Perhaps this is working as designed as the 3 groups of units in the city / port together draw down 15 general supply per turn. The tool tip level's of supply give close to this each turn so hence there is none accumulating. But this would also mean that the tooltip indicating 'supply level' is referring directly to general supply points and not full supply chits.


Hartford is more interesting. It is a lvl 1 settlement with only a bunch of colonists in situ who draw down 0 supply per turn. Yet it's number of supply crates fluctuates from turn to turn. How is this? The manual states that supply doesn't accumulate. So why are the number of supply crates shown in the supply filter going up at times? And why are they going down at times if nobody is using them?


If anyone can shed light on this I'm all ears.

Cheers,
Plugger

Please be patient, I have asked for clarification, but the devs are busy...

Goodaye,

I appreciate your efforts to get a definitive answer. I wasn't intending to push you, only to add some more info and perhaps make my queries easier to understand. I'm happy to sit tight and wait.

Cheers,
Plugger

Edited: Some clarifications.

Hello!

Seems the manual offers some wrong values for supply, sorry for that, this need to be corrected.

Plugger, I use the same examples as you.

Boston:
City Lvl. 2
Harbor Lvl 2
Weather: Frozen
CivLevel: Cleared, Road
Supply Level = 15

Providence:
Settlement Lvl 1
Harbor Lvl 1
Depot Lvl 1
Weather: Frozen
CivLevel: Cleared, Track
Supply Level = 27

Hartfort:
Settlement Lvl 1
Weather: Frozen
CivLevel: Cleared, Track
Supply Level = 5


Structures:

First question: How much supply does the structures give? You can learn this by checking the files which define the structures. They can be found in ...\WIA\GameData\Structures\.

For example the file 3City.str (an excerpt):
The interesting line is Supply = 5. This means the city provides 5 Supply Level (in the manual also called Supply Chips). FillAmmo means that a city also produces ammo (which means that the city provides "full Supply Chips")

Please note: The tooltip in the unit panel tells how much Supply Points a force needs and stores, the city and region tooltip tells you how many Supply Chips = Supply Level the region provide.
1 Supply Chip = 5 Supply Points and, if the structure can provide it, 2 Ammo Points.


According to the definitions, structures (Lvl 1) provide supply (Supply Levels):

City: 5 + Ammo
Harbor : 2 + Ammo
Fort: 10 + Ammo
Depot: 20 + Ammo
Settlement: 5


Terrain and Weather:

Additional to what the structures produce, the regions itself can offer some supply too. This is defined in the terrain definitions. These can be found in \WIA\GameData\Terrains\

[font=Verdana]Lets for example check the supply level of clear terrain for different weather. Again, the line "Supply =" gives the answer.
An excerpt of the file:
[/font]So this means in frozen conditions a region of clear terrain gives no supply!

All supply levels for clear terrain (Supply Level):
Clear: 4
Mud: 2
Snow: 1
Frozen: 0


Civ Level:

The infrastructure has some impact on supply too. A road adds for example 1 Supply Level. In wild regions the Supply Level is reduced by 30%.



Lets go back to the examples:

Boston:
City Lvl. 2 = Supply Lvl: 2 * 5 = 10
Harbor Lvl 2 = Supply Lvl: 2 * 2 = 4
Weather: Frozen = Supply Lvl: 0
CivLevel: Cleared, Road = Supply Lvl: 1
If we add the numbers: Supply Level = 15

Providence:
Settlement Lvl 1 = Supply Lvl: 5
Harbor Lvl 1 = Supply Lvl: 2
Depot Lvl 1 Supply Lvl: 20
Weather: Frozen = Supply Lvl: 0
CivLevel: Cleared, Track = Supply Lvl: 0
If we add the numbers: Supply Level = 27

Hartfort:
Settlement Lvl 1 = Supply Lvl: 5
Weather: Frozen = Supply Lvl: 0
CivLevel: Cleared, Track = Supply Lvl: 0
If we add the numbers: Supply Level = 5


BTW:
- Every crate in the supply map filter stands for 3 supply level.
- If needed supply can also be drawn from adjacent regions.


Cheers
Norbert

Awesome post! Very insightful... might even be worth Stickying.....

Goodaye,

Great reply. Very informative. Much appreciated. It makes sense now.

So...

1. 'supply level' in the tooltips refers to General supply and NOT Supply chips (SC) as in BoA

2. Each crate in the supply filter equates to 3 General supply points NOT 50 as per the manual

3. Supply does NOT accumulate from turn to turn

4. Both the tooltips & crates in the filter refer to the total gross general supply points in the region. Any forces you have that use this supply are ignored by both the tooltips / crates calculations. To check whether your forces in any particular region have enough supply you have to look at the forces info, neither the tooltips or crates will tell you that.

In effect the tooltips / crates are a 'GROSS' total of all supply available in the region, not a 'net' total once useage has been subtracted.

5. In the supply filter the color coding shows 'NET' supply. Eg. How much surplus supply is left in a region after subtracting current useage by forces present. Green for gobble and go, red for rub your rumbling tummy mate 'cause that's all you're getting tonight.

6. (edit: added to the list) While forces can draw supply from adjacent regions this additional supply DOES NOT show up on either the tooltip or crates calculation for the central region that you are looking at. Eg. there is NO consolidation of multi-region supply in the tooltip / crates calculations.

If I've got any of this wrong could you point me in the right direction.

Cheers,
Plugger

I believe your #1 is not correct. I think is is 'Supply Chips'

Very large armies are well supplied in cities with Supply Level = ~50, where the army tooltip says 'consumes ~168/turn'.


...or, I'm still confused = a very strong possibility

Goodaye,

Huh? According to what the previous bloke wrote it is supply level, not supply chips (which would be supply level x 5).

Who's correct?

Cheers,
Plugger

1. 'supply level' in the tooltips refers to General supply and NOT Supply chips (SC) as in BoA

Supply Level = Supply Chip
I edited my post as it was misleading.

2. Each crate in the supply filter equates to 3 General supply points NOT 50 as per the manual

Yes, 3 SC = 15 Supply Points

3. Supply does NOT accumulate from turn to turn

Yes.

4. Both the tooltips & crates in the filter refer to the total gross general supply points in the region. Any forces you have that use this supply are ignored by both the tooltips / crates calculations. To check whether your forces in any particular region have enough supply you have to look at the forces info, neither the tooltips or crates will tell you that.
In effect the tooltips / crates are a 'GROSS' total of all supply available in the region, not a 'net' total once useage has been subtracted.

Yes.

5. In the supply filter the color coding shows 'NET' supply. Eg. How much surplus supply is left in a region after subtracting current useage by forces present. Green for gobble and go, red for rub your rumbling tummy mate 'cause that's all you're getting tonight.

Yes.

6. (edit: added to the list) While forces can draw supply from adjacent regions this additional supply DOES NOT show up on either the tooltip or crates calculation for the central region that you are looking at. Eg. there is NO consolidation of multi-region supply in the tooltip / crates calculations.

Yes.

Cheers
Norbert

Goodaye,

O.K...... I've now got supply by the short and curlies. Many thanks to all those that have helped.

Cheers,
Plugger

So just to clarify then
would

Boston would supply 15 * 5 = 75 supply POINTS and 15 * 2 = 30 ammo
Providence would supply 27 * 5 = 135 supply points and 27 * 2 54 ammo
Hartford would supply 5*5 = 25 supply points and no ammo

OR do only the structure points provide ammo? in which case Boston would provide 2 less ammo for instance?