w_michael
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The Problem of Plaisance [King William's War]

Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:41 am

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tiFqp3ugXcalaUa_L2I4QTIS4l2iByk8/view?usp=sharing

The link above is a screen shot of the problem. As the English, I landed Church's Brigade in the Placentia region of Terre Neuve, and assaulted Plaisance. The battle is a stalemate, but all of the French troops are killed. The turn's messages show that the battle was a draw, Church's Brigade destroys Fort de Plaisance, and the survivors flee. On the map, Plaisance is still under French control, but besieged.

I can never occupy Plaisance, or gain credit for capturing the strategic town. I've been able to duplicate this in two games in a row now.

I assume that this is a bug, or am I missing something?

w_michael
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Re: The Problem of Plaisance [King William's War]

Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:02 pm

Third time lucky! Here is the screen shot of the English capturing Plaisance:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J-HgUK7xk9Y99tntJs2Y72UGiG4QYlCU/view?usp=sharing

This time around, the forces were different. The English have some artillery, and the French slipped past Gilbert's Squadron and reinforced the garrison with troops and supply. After several months under siege, nothing was happening, so in December the English made an all-out assault. It was a respectable English victory, but not all of the French garrison was eliminated like in the previous two attempts. In response the French destroyed Plaisance, the survivors fled into the region, and the English captured Plaisance.

I feel better that it is not a complete lost cause for the English, but there is a chance (a strong chance?) that you will waste an entire campaign season because of the bug.

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Durk
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Re: The Problem of Plaisance [King William's War]

Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:07 am

My guess is it is not really a bug, it is the consequence of the penalties of a naval landing. Penalties are severe.
I know you cannot do the same battle as a land attack, but your different circumstances in your second illustration shows a bit of the why.

w_michael
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Re: The Problem of Plaisance [King William's War]

Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:05 pm

Thanks for the reply. I would have landed on the previous turn, as far as I remember. I did order naval bombardment support, but it was ineffective. I'll try it again with Church's brigade by landing in St. John and then marching over to assault.

Here is another failure: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fzjQmdxbUlOlfwvWZlW9vxaFoCJgN6gD/view?usp=sharing

I landed Church's brigade on the previous turn with assault orders - amphibious landing as you say. Church was defeated and retreated to Terre Neuve (there is the penalty at play). On this turn Church was ordered to move to Placentia and assault Plaisance. Before his arrival the French surrendered. In spite of this, the English did not gain control of the strategic town.

There must be an ownership flag not being changed on one of the game files under a peculiar set of circumstances.

EDIT: I tried it again, this time landing in St. John first and then marching overland for the assault. The English won the battle after two months, but failed to capture Plaisance as before even after a victory that eliminated all of the defending elements.

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Durk
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Re: The Problem of Plaisance [King William's War]

Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:54 am

Ok, interesting bug. Sounds for sure like a bug.
Please find a PM in this regard.

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Nikel
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Re: The Problem of Plaisance [King William's War]

Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:00 am

This scenario was created by Hobbes, was it not?

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Durk
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Re: The Problem of Plaisance [King William's War]

Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:04 am

Indeed it was, and a delightful game it is.

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Durk
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Re: The Problem of Plaisance [King William's War]

Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:34 am

Ah ha, I think I know the reason for the problem of not capturing a region in which all the opposing forces are eliminated. In this game there are no regulars. Regions only change loyalty if a regular is present. In this game, only the British have regular units.

w_michael
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Re: The Problem of Plaisance [King William's War]

Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:57 pm

That may be the problem. Perhaps you can capture settlements, stockades, and Indian villages with irregulars, but not cities. Falmouth and Plaisance are both Level 1 Cities.

I found this in the rules: "Irregular units and Partisans may only take control of a structure if the Loyalty of the region is greater than 50%." Perhaps I need to wait longer for the regional loyalty to increase before the structure can be controlled by irregulars".

EDIT: Nope. I tried again. I assaulted Plaisance with irregulars, when the regional Loyalty was 37%, killed all of the defenders and destroyed the fort. The Size 1 City remained in French control. I gave assault orders on each subsequent turn and even when the Loyalty was 100%, the English couldn't control Plaisance.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ieyt0CzcvVDSmf-pqxRX4TA-L8-L3_2q/view?usp=sharing

w_michael
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Re: The Problem of Plaisance [King William's War]

Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:49 pm

I found the following entry in the 1.07b2 patch notes:

Added *NoCapture* attribute to all $famRaiders to fix the Raiders capturing Cities bug

This explains the problem that I was having. Raider type troops (Indians, Rangers, etc.) cannot capture cities. When I add one Militia unit to Church's Brigade then it captures Plaisance with no problem. It is not such a big deal, now that I understand how it works, because that additional Militia unit becomes the new English garrison.

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Durk
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Re: The Problem of Plaisance [King William's War]

Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:07 am

Interesting, maybe militia can do it. My understanding, only regulars can change loyalty.

w_michael
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Re: The Problem of Plaisance [King William's War]

Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:52 am

Durk wrote:Interesting, maybe militia can do it. My understanding, only regulars can change loyalty.

Loyalty and control are the same thing AFAIK. I can sit Indians (Raiders) in a region and they will change the control (loyalty) in their side's favour.

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