BOA2, WIA : Patch 1.02c

[CristoFire-Ice]

I'm not sure if this coincides exactly with the last patch, but I don't see the retreat icon any more in the battle result window; and something else is also puzzling: Since several turns, my forces do retreat after winning their battles, even with very aggressive attitudes. Apparently, I'm not the only one experiencing that (see in the french forum).

Has it something to do with the patch?

Hi, I've been experiencing this many times with my opponent Siekster. I have sent a full backup of our last 5 turns to ageod support, but no answer.

Everytime a battle has been hapening, the winning side has retreated, even when outnumbering and crushing the enemy.

[Ebbingford]

Just had the same problem with a winning side retreat. Cornwallis and his force, also rangers, indians and dragoons, won battle against small militia force outside the town. Brits won and retreated while the militia failed in one retreat attempt, but still stayed put.

[lodilefty]

We still need a saved game of this misbehavior.

Please, zip the saved game files, including the subfolder Backup1 and upload here.

If it is a PBEM game, it must be the host that uploads the zipped files...

Thank you.

[Ebbingford]

Here are the required files

[lodilefty]

It is the combination of autoretreat and how the battle report determines 'Victory'

Autoretreat occurs when a force reaches 20% hits
AFAIK, 'Victory' is defined as which side recieves lower % hits, not who holds the terrain.

From your battle report:

Battle in 488 Savannah Day: 1 Round: 3
19:26:23 (Reporting) 1002326 Cornwallis's Army new target is 1001681 II. Detachment
19:26:23 (Reporting) 1001681 II. Detachment new target is 1002326 Cornwallis's Army
19:26:23 (Reporting) Checking combat stance for United States of America in region Savannah
19:26:23 (Reporting) We are routing!
19:26:23 (Reporting) II. Detachment is still fixed or static, can't retreat.
19:26:23 (Reporting) Checking combat stance for Great Britain in region Savannah
19:26:23 (Reporting) [color="Red"]Auto retreat triggered, TotalHits remaining: 178 Avg Cohesion%: 59 Base AutoRet%: 20 Hits taken: 43[/color]
19:26:23 (Reporting) Group 1002326 Cornwallis's Army faction losses reached Auto retreat level, retreat is automatic
19:26:23 (Reporting) Cornwallis's Army succeeded in retreating
19:26:23 (Reporting) Cornwallis's Army will take 3 hits while retreating (no hits can be done on round 0)
19:26:23 (Reporting) Cornwallis's Army is retreating toward Abercorn
19:26:23 (Reporting) Group Cornwallis's Army has retreated

So, this is WAD, no bug.

Autoretreat is fairly new. The fundamental research and testing was done in AACW. It was added to reduce the ahistorical blood baths.Intent is to simulate the local commander using discretion to preserve his army despite any orders to the contrary.

Thank you for your report!

[Franciscus]

(...) So, this is WAD, no bug.
(..)

... but is it really a good WAD, I wonder... ?

[JSB]

Lodilefty, have you received the files? (on Support ageod?)

[Siekster]

... but is it really a good WAD, I wonder... ?

I felt the same way at first, but after doing some research on FiW battles, most of them had casualties in the hundreds, whereas in the game before the patch, many of my battles had casualties in the thousands. If such results are ahistorical, then perhaps the change is for the better?

On the other hand, in some of Me and CristoFires 1812 battles, he won some solid victories, which resulted in both of us fleeing the province, which doesn't make much sense... One side should be able to remain I would think....

[lodilefty]

Lodilefty, have you received the files? (on Support ageod?)

I don't personally have access to ageod support mail...
Hok looks at them.

If you wish, you may post here....

Franciscus:
Good WAD? Time will tell.

IMHO, one of the 'irritants' that exists in BoA is 'superstacks, huge battles'.
I think that anything that nudges WIA away frommsuperstacks and into smaller battles/more maneuver is good.

Commanders retreating when suffering losses is good, IMHO...

[lodilefty]

I felt the same way at first, but after doing some research on FiW battles, most of them had casualties in the hundreds, whereas in the game before the patch, many of my battles had casualties in the thousands. If such results are ahistorical, then perhaps the change is for the better?

On the other hand, in some of Me and CristoFires 1812 battles, he won some solid victories, which resulted in both of us fleeing the province, which doesn't make much sense... One side should be able to remain I would think....

Both retreated? Interesting, as I suppose autoretreat can be reached by both sides.
IMHO, it's OK. After all, a commander choosing to retreat because of lossess doesn't know the other guy is thinking the same thing...

My opinion: WIA is strategic, not tactical. The player orders armies to go somewhere and do something, then must 'throw a mighty rage' as Washington often did when something goes awry...
If WIA were tactical, I wouldn't be playing it, or supporting it

[JSB]

I'm afraid the example I was taking doesn't match with the "20% hits in one day" auto-retrat.
If I add all the "hearts" of Wolfe's Army, the result is more than 110 (without the supply unit), and this army suffered 15 hits during the battle.
The only thing that matches, is that the losing camp had a static unit -coastal arty (which was one of my own, and which surrendered pretty quickly a few turns away, before this new feature was added ).

PS: I cannot post the files, I'm not the host; I wondered if my opponent did it.

[lodilefty]

I'm afraid the example I was taking doesn't match with the "20% hits in one day" auto-retrat.
If I add all the "hearts" of Wolfe's Army, the result is more than 110 (without the supply unit), and this army suffered 15 hits during the battle.
The only thing that matches, is that the losing camp had a static unit -coastal arty (which was one of my own, and which surrendered pretty quickly a few turns away, before this new feature was added ).

What does the battle log say? Search for text "Auto retreat"

I've never been sure exactly what we see and don't see in the 'in game battle report', so the log 'tells all'

[JSB]

IMHO, one of the 'irritants' that exists in BoA is 'superstacks, huge battles'.
I think that anything that nudges WIA away frommsuperstacks and into smaller battles/more maneuver is good.

Commanders retreating when suffering losses is good, IMHO...

Sure the historical losses were inferior to what we can encounter in WiA, but the stacks could be quiet huge!
16000 men to attack Fort Carillon (defended by almost 4000 men), I can't even imagine it in the game. And it's also likely that the losses would be considerable, even with an auto-retreat after just one round, compared to the historical 1500 british losses.

Perhaps are the battles too lethal??? (naval battles are massacres, but no ship sunk...)

[lodilefty]

Lodilefty, have you received the files? (on Support ageod?)

Who sent them? Hok can't find these...

[lodilefty]

Hi, I've been experiencing this many times with my opponent Siekster. I have sent a full backup of our last 5 turns to ageod support, but no answer.

Everytime a battle has been hapening, the winning side has retreated, even when outnumbering and crushing the enemy.

I need the passwords from both of you to look at this.
Please PM to me....

[CristoFire-Ice]

Ok password sent.

[lodilefty]

Ok password sent.

Thanks!

I've run the turn using the beta patch [in progress], and the retreats by victors in your case do NOT occur. Harrison holds at Detroit, Keane stays in Manhattan and captures it...

There was a bug in the early version of autoretreat [reported in AACW] that may well be in 1.02c.

It appears that the pending 1.03 patch fixes it...

...and to answer the obvious question: "Soon". We're looking at one last issue today...

Thank you for you report and your patience

[Ebbingford]

Yes, autoretreat is triggered, but was triggered for the militia before it was triggered for Cornwallis. Because they had the non movable guns they there fore didn't retreat. Surely they would have just abandoned them? A fully commanded, supplied British regular force plus indians and rangers retreating before 4 companies of uncommanded militia just doesn't ring true. Each turn is 30 days, the British force would possibly have retreated from the battle on one day but would surely try and fight again before the 30 day turn was up, wouldn't it? If this auto retreat is meant to save blood baths it works, but surely it also stops multi day battles as in this case Cornwallis retreated out of the region.

[lodilefty]

Yes, autoretreat is triggered, but was triggered for the militia before it was triggered for Cornwallis. Because they had the non movable guns they there fore didn't retreat. Surely they would have just abandoned them? A fully commanded, supplied British regular force plus indians and rangers retreating before 4 companies of uncommanded militia just doesn't ring true. Each turn is 30 days, the British force would possibly have retreated from the battle on one day but would surely try and fight again before the 30 day turn was up, wouldn't it? If this auto retreat is meant to save blood baths it works, but surely it also stops multi day battles as in this case Cornwallis retreated out of the region.

Militia couldn't abandon, as they were inside the structure, combined in group with hguns.

As for the rest, the new patch will address many of these situations. The autoretreat is bugged in 1.02c

[Ebbingford]

The militia and guns were outside the town, no seige and no assault.
Yes they were in a force with static guns which cannot retreat so I think the game really needs to handle the situation better. The militia should be allowed to retreat. I'm sure historically the militia would have abandoned the guns and run, or surrendered, probably with out even spiking the guns. All before the retreat is triggered for Cornwallis.
I still don't see how this is going to give multi day battles as in this situation Cornwallis retreated out of the area. Shouldn't the retreat just be from contact and then further checks be made to see if battle is joined on any later day within the turn.

[Longhairedlout]

Hi there... Ive been playing a couple of Pbem games of WIA, during those games Ive noticed some wierd things happening, with my Armies who have won retreating during the battle..... What Im trying to ask is does Ageod know when the 1.03 patch might be released.... thanks.


Steven

[arsan]

Hi!
We are betatesting the 1.03 patch.
Can give a date as it depends of the problems we find and when the fixes for this are done. But i hope its not far away.
Sorry for not being clearer... but at least you can be sure that AGEOD is working on it

[Longhairedlout]

Thanks for the quick reply Arsan..... I understand the problems when releasing a new patch..... thanks

[Longhairedlout]

Hi there Arsan.... just wondering how the 1.03 patch is coming along


Steven

[Hok]

Soon Steven ... as soon as possible

[Longhairedlout]

Thanks for the quick reply Hok, Im looking forward to it being released