AGEOD Forums

Have some critical observations over "Last flight of the Eagle" OOB and starting deployement.

The "supposed" Napoleon's plan for the "Waterloo/Mt St. Jean campaign" was aimed to quickly engage in separate battles the Dutch-British Army of Low Countries and the Prussian Army of Lower Rhine.
Napoleon planned French Armee du Nord could so gain a local superiority over the two Coalition armies if engaged in sepate battles.

When French Armee du Nord crossed the French-Belgium border beginning the campaign, Dutch-British Army of Low Countries forces were till spread over a large area of Belgium and Holland. The Prussian Army of Lower Rhine was on march to approach the Belgium-French border along the Namur-Liege road. Prussian Corps were at some days of march distance.

All French forces were organized in a unique army: French Armee du Nord under Napoleon command.
Later Ney commanded the French Corps at Quatre Bras and had the field command under Napoleon supervision at Mont-St. Jean.
Grouchy was detached to shadow the Prussians following the battle of Ligny.
Anyway Ney and Grouchy operated as Commanders leading more Corps of the Armee du Nord under Napoleon command, rather then separated indipendent armies.


Now, most of these elements are negated by "Last flight of the Eagle" starting deployement and OOB.

1. All Dutch-British Army of Low Countries forces are regrouped at Bruxelles, while all Prussian Army of Lower Rhine forces are regrouped at Ligny
.......These forces should better be spreaded in different regions.

2. French Forces are divided among three Armies under command of Ney (Left wing), Grouchy (Right Wing), Napoleon (Central Army).
..... A unique French Armee du Nord should regroup all French forces, even if spreaded over different regions.


My suggestions

1. Clash of Arms' THE EMPEROR RETURNS provides a realistic deployement for Coalition and French forces at campaign start.
I'll be happy to e-mail PhilThib indications for units deployement based over THE EMPEROR RETURNS and translated to NCP regions.

2. I suggest to start the "Last flight of the Eagle" campaign with all French Forces attached to a unique army: French Armee du Nord Leaded by Napoleon.
Ney and Grouchy should be attached to Napoleon Army Force, as reserve, on-call-duty 3 stars Generals.
An HQ unit should be available in French OOB, possibly attached to Napoleon Army Force: it could be used to detach as indipenden Army command under Ney or Grouchy leadership some French Forces: it's what happens with Grouchy Command after Battle of Ligny.


Note:
I know NCP support 3rd party mods.
What I suggest is not a mod to Last flight of the Eagle, but the way Last flight of the Eagle should work!
I guess official sceneries shouls be as accurate as possible..........


Expect a mess of comments........

JastaV

P.S.: see also my notes over Guard Committement:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=9656

Interesting .. also please check my report leure:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=82496&postcount=6

I make a note on this thread, we will look at several NCP issues this week, despite WIA being just out.

Thanks jastaV for switching again to NCP to test some scenarios. You are a wealth of knowledge and your comments seem to be always an inspiration for AGEOD team!

And thanks Pocus, great news for us, poor NCPers

Pocus wrote:I make a note on this thread, we will look at several NCP issues this week, despite WIA being just out.

Let me know if you are inrested to a "Last flight of the Eagle" Forces deployement based over "Napoleon Return".

As regard WIA, I'll enjoy it as soon as it will available in the boxed CDR/DVDROM version.........

JastaV

Carnium wrote:Interesting .. also please check my report leure:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=82496&postcount=6

Carnium report
Tried a quick scenario (Last flight of the Eagle).
Whinyates Bty unit picture still not fixed
the French AI is "strange". I managed to win in 3 turns by doing practically nothing :
FIRST TURN : re-ordered my troops so that the leader penalty for all corps is gone and gave them the defensive stance. AI sends all troops to Bruxelles and attacks it.
Three huge battles occur where he looses cca 80.000 men ( + 18.000 POWs) and gets a huge NM hit.
SECOND TURN : sending my troops that still have more or less intact units toward Lille. Two battles occur and at the turn end the AI has 101.000 casualties and 19.000+ POWs.
THIRD TURN : all out attack (instead of besieging ) Lille. AI has 108.000 casualties, 20.000 POWs.
GAME OVER

My total losses were cca 51.000 casualties. Score 540 vs 20.


No time to play more today as it is kinda late

I reported the Whinyates Bty unit picture issue too!

As regard AI, guess we cannot evaluate it by a single match.
Past weekend I had a big NCP time....

I played Last flight of the Eagles 5-6 times, Coalition and French sides.
Any time AI seems to "think", plan and act differentely: sometime is a tought opponent, someother very dumb,......sometimes the player, (me) superficial approach to the game leaded to a disaster.

I also observed NCP settings, (AI and game options) are of great importance for AI opposition, and game challenge.........

I have not NCP at hand here, but I plan to post my "optimized" game settings: an "optimized" setting is one granting challenge without dramatically altering historical accuracy.
That in my opinion......... apy:

Carnium wrote:Interesting .. also please check my report leure:
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=82496&postcount=6

Re-order/re-organize troops is.......cheating! apy:

...... Although its common practice for me too?

See the link for suggestions as regard:

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=9662

Bear in mind, turn one is June 8-15. The Battles of Ligny and Quatre Bras were June 16.
With the map as is, it's tough to get an accurate Anglo-Allied deployment. I propose moving the City of Bruxelles one region northeast to current region Louvain. Rename Bruxelles region Mons. With this change, general deployments as follows:

A-A II Corps, Frederick Corps, Cav Corps (-) Mons; A-A I and Reserve Corps and Army HQ Bruxelles. Siege arty, Lambert's Brit Bde, and Hanoverian Res Corps further back.
Prussian I Korps Charleroi, II and III Korps with Blucher Army HQ Namur and IV Korps Liege.

FM WarB wrote:Bear in mind, turn one is June 8-15. The Battles of Ligny and Quatre Bras were June 16.
With the map as is, it's tough to get an accurate Anglo-Allied deployment. I propose moving the City of Bruxelles one region northeast to current region Louvain. Rename Bruxelles region Mons. With this change, general deployments as follows:

A-A II Corps, Frederick Corps, Cav Corps (-) Mons; A-A I and Reserve Corps and Army HQ Bruxelles. Siege arty, Lambert's Brit Bde, and Hanoverian Res Corps further back.
Prussian I Korps Charleroi, II and III Korps with Blucher Army HQ Namur and IV Korps Liege.

Clash of Arms' Emperor Return starts at June the 10th.
With NCP Last Flight of the Eagle we could start June 1-7 week, assuming the same OOB of Clash of Arms' Emperor Return.

I have not seen Clash of Arms. In this game, Wellington need not worry about his line of communication to the Port of Ostende as it is NOT on the map. (It should be where Bruges is.)
Further study indicates that the 7th Anglo-German "Division" was actually split up, garrisoning Antwerp and the missing Ostende. Starting from my deployment ideas, The Bruxelles forces and IV Prussian Corps should be fixed turn one (8-15 June).

No more Unrealisticly concentrated Wellington army marching on Charleroi, turn one.

Sorry to disapoint some of you, but when I say I'll look at NCP, it means I'll look at gameplay/AI bugs and issues, and not if there are errors in OOB. I'm not knowledged enough in Napoleon era to tweak them, nor I have the time to do that. It is more a work for people I tag as 'The Historical Team'.

Pocus,
It seems your historical team is not too active. Maybe they need some new blood. Excusez moi, but omitting the port of Ostende would seem to be a whopper, not only for this scenario, but for 1805 scenarios involving navies.
And yes, I am volunteering to help or join the historical team.
Warren

Pocus wrote:Sorry to disapoint some of you, but when I say I'll look at NCP, it means I'll look at gameplay/AI bugs and issues, and not if there are errors in OOB. I'm not knowledged enough in Napoleon era to tweak them, nor I have the time to do that. It is more a work for people I tag as 'The Historical Team'.

So, please, invite 'The Historical Team' members to enjoy this discussion...

JastaV

FM WarB wrote:I have not seen Clash of Arms......

Clash of Arms is a board game company with many Napoleonic titles released!
Clash of Arms titles are very accurate from historical point of view and real artistic masterships: maps and unit counters are hand crafted!

The Emperor Returns, (Campaigns of Napoleon series) is Clash of Arms titles dedicated to Corps/Divisional level simulation of 1815 Campaign.

To know more.....

the game:

http://grognard.com/titlee.html#e363

rules:

http://www.napoleongames.com/soa.html#rules

rules download:

http://www.napoleongames.com/Rules/Consolidated/1815%20Exclusive%20Rules%20(Consolidated).pdf

Game Tables downloads :

http://www.napoleongames.com/Rules/Consolidated/1815%20Exclusive%20Tables%20(Consolidated).pdf

The ADC2 version of the game can be downloaded for free here:

http://67.155.107.229/COA/The%20Emperor%20Returns.exe

Download ADC2 demo:

http://games.softpedia.com/get/Games-Demo/Aide-de-Camp-2-Demo.shtml

Note
ADC2 is a program allowing the conversion an gaming of plenty boardgames on PC.

I think that you two, jastaV and FM WarB should join NCP improvement team!

Maybe I am wrong but I think that with 'The Historical Team', Pocus is referring to a part of AGEOD team (PhilThib included), not the volunteers that form NCP improvement team.

Nikel wrote:I think that you two, jastaV and FM WarB should join NCP improvement team!

Maybe I am wrong but I think that with 'The Historical Team', Pocus is referring to a part of AGEOD team (PhilThib included), not the volunteers that form NCP improvement team.

PhilThib invited me to enjoy the beta tester groups some..... weeks ago!
Had to deny because of the slow, traditional phone-net connection I have:
no ADSL is servicing the place were I live and work.
Having to exchange large files is a pity.
Anyway I'm trying my best to support the development team spamming the forum with.....ideas(?).

......May be in 2009
.....I heared rumors of possible ADSL connection!

JastaV

At this stage in the game's life, I don't see a slow connection as much of a problem. The OOBs and database files that one wishes to test are much smaller and forgiving of a slow connection, and if you're ablt to browse the forums and post, you're pretty much good to go, I'd say.

My 2 cents.

By Historical Team I mean PhilThib, which is routinely 150% busy (so he intervenes on small historical fixes, as you saw on the PW Campaign) and Volunteers.

We are at the third iteration of volunteers for NCP. It seems like a curse, they all disappears in a matter of weeks each time. So there is perhaps only 2 persons still listed on our rosters as volunteers for NCP, and they are already very busy in real life to commit on anything major.

In conclusion, you will be welcome to recreate the 'Napoleon Improvement Team, Iteration 4'

Pocus wrote:By Historical Team I mean PhilThib, which is routinely 150% busy (so he intervenes on small historical fixes, as you saw on the PW Campaign) and Volunteers.

We are at the third iteration of volunteers for NCP. It seems like a curse, they all disappears in a matter of weeks each time. So there is perhaps only 2 persons still listed on our rosters as volunteers for NCP, and they are already very busy in real life to commit on anything major.

In conclusion, you will be welcome to recreate the 'Napoleon Improvement Team, Iteration 4'

I'll take charge to collect deployement and OOB data for Last flight of the Eagle, accordint to the term I reported:......see Emperor Returns.
Anyway I have not experience of AGEOD program modding so somebody has to convers data into NCP files.

JastaV

As long as you are fixing Whinyates' picture, you may as well give Ross and Beane RHA attached to Wellington's Army Horse Artillery pictures.

jastaV wrote:I'll take charge to collect deployement and OOB data for Last flight of the Eagle, accordint to the term I reported:......see Emperor Returns.
Anyway I have not experience of AGEOD program modding so somebody has to convers data into NCP files.

JastaV

That's a bit the crux of the problem. We find volunteers that have ideas or can provide docs and details on OOBs, but when it comes to actually doing the setup with the AGE syntax, there is a lack of motivation.

So for the Team #4 to succeed, you have to find people willing to mod setups.

I am still learning AGE syntax and may have some questions for the NCP Mod forum. I no longer have the "I don't have Open Office" excuse.
I am waiting on the latest database files to be posted, so I can start from them.

Also remember that in this scenario, the Black Legion should be led by 'Braunschweig Zwei' -data and picture is in the models and graphics, scenario just isn't updated. Braunschweig 'eins' died in 1806

Oops...there goes the "I am waiting on the latest database files to be posted" excuse. Just downloaded it, thanks.

Prussian OOB & deployement posted:

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=9676

Pocus wrote:That's a bit the crux of the problem. We find volunteers that have ideas or can provide docs and details on OOBs, but when it comes to actually doing the setup with the AGE syntax, there is a lack of motivation.

So for the Team #4 to succeed, you have to find people willing to mod setups.

Please post links to any AGE syntax guideline or other modder doc.
This does not mean I'll do all the dirty work.......but I'l consider trying it!

thanks for links......

JastaV

There is some posts by Primasprit in this thread which can help you getting started:

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=3974

I have the mod advice files, and have started perusing the latest database files, thankyou.
It probably is not important enough to add the missing 11 and 12 Prussian Bde leaders, with possible necessary new unit files. I dont want to mess with adding new models or leaders just yet in any case; changing setup files with what's available is a good first step.

FM WarB wrote:I have the mod advice files, and have started perusing the latest database files, thankyou.
It probably is not important enough to add the missing 11 and 12 Prussian Bde leaders, with possible necessary new unit files. I dont want to mess with adding new models or leaders just yet in any case; changing setup files with what's available is a good first step.

I agree!

Kuhlman's Horse arty KGL of Gds Div were 9 lbers.

I have never seen a MacDonald RHA battery in any oob or game thus far. LTC A. MacDonald was the commander of the RHA in the Cav Corps. This leader is mia in the Models file.

Attached is a list of the sources I use, when discussing Napoleonic warfare in general, and this campaign specifically.