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For you enjoyment. Feedback welcome so we can finalize this.





THIS PATCH DOES NOT WORK FOR THE 1.00 VERSION, if you have not installed the Foundation Patch before.
NCPPatch 1.09 beta RC4a
March 16, 2012


This patch is not compatible with saved games from versions earlier than1.09 RC1.

In all cases, the Saved Game Folder will be deleted.

• Models
  
  • FRA- Honoré Reille now has French-Italian ability (FRA, KOI)
  • Conde de Resende Rank corrected for 1 Star model [was set as 2]
• 1808 Spainish Campaign: [Major review and revisions]
  
  • Further updates to HistOptions08.sct
  • Replacements quantities and types adjusted
  • Event messages and text updated, and missing notifications fixed
• Latest Game Engine (120315)
• Added 'Distant Unload' to command buttons
• Fixed Depot build notices and duration
• Fixed bug where a lone Leader could contest a region's ownership, thus preventing depot build
• Modified ''StaleMate'' end-of-game messages to be ''Victory (or Loss) by Points''

Complete change log attached:

Just to make sure this is a comprehensive patch or?

A quick look(not much time as I still work on another game/scenario) and I instantly saw that unit detail window again covers the elements panel, Bohémond already made a fix for it in the other thread(http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?23188-Feedback-for-NCP-Official-Patch-1-08-November-4-2011&p=221923&viewfull=1#post221923) but I guess it came back because of the "Army Outliner".
See screenshot.
Because of this I suggest putting the Army Outliner on the left side of the screen, also because if you collapsed the outliner it is covered by the unit detail window, although you can still click on it it looks strange.

Speaking of the outliner, showing 8 diamonds is sometimes(especially in the Russian campaign) not nearly enough for all the corps in the Grande Armée, not sure what should be done... maybe the flag could be made bigger to get them all on or simply some more diamonds over the flag around Napoleons head?

BigDuke66 wrote:Just to make sure this is a comprehensive patch or?

A quick look(not much time as I still work on another game/scenario) and I instantly saw that unit detail window again covers the elements panel, Bohémond already made a fix for it in the other thread(http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?23188-Feedback-for-NCP-Official-Patch-1-08-November-4-2011&p=221923&viewfull=1#post221923) but I guess it came back because of the "Army Outliner".
See screenshot.
Because of this I suggest putting the Army Outliner on the left side of the screen, also because if you collapsed the outliner it is covered by the unit detail window, although you can still click on it it looks strange.

Speaking of the outliner, showing 8 diamonds is sometimes(especially in the Russian campaign) not nearly enough for all the corps in the Grande Armée, not sure what should be done... maybe the flag could be made bigger to get them all on or simply some more diamonds over the flag around Napoleons head?

Yes, all patches are comprehensive...

AFAIK, the issue with the Model Detail has nothing to do with Army Organizer.
It's theoretically simmple to fix by adjusting the Y coordinate [as Bohemond did]

However, this is problematic at lower resolutions, as the fix moves the top part of the Detail up so far it is off screen!

So, given the age of the game [hanging on for dear life in the face of new, high-res computers], IMHO we'll either have to leave this fix as a user-mod for now, pending some genius that can make the position resolution dependant...

...or, you can try the attached version that moves the window to the left. I've tested at 1024x768 and 1280x800 so it works ok at the lower end resolutions...

Attached (1.1KB):
Extract into \NCP\FrontEnd
1 file overwritten

To avoid the Army Outliner to cover the unit detail window is posible changing the 5th line in the ModelDetail.fte file in the Frontend directory from z = 95 to z = 98. That will show the unit detail window over the army outliner.

I now edited the X & Y coordinates so that the unit detail window doesn't cover anything.

Is there also some kind of coordinates to set for the army outliner?
The problem I now have is that the army outliner disappears when I have more elements in the elements panel so that the element panel is expanded in its height, that counts also for the collapsed army outliner.

Merci/thanks for the patch! I'll have to check it out!

Hopefully, we are not done yet...

The right-click on ledger bug reported in AACW (http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?24357-Replacement-screen-closes) is also present in RC4a...

Ok, I've gone back to the Spanish Ulcer, my favorite campagin.
A couple of comments:
- Grouchy now a Germanophile general - good
- a higher propensity to see Surrenders: already three in 20 turns. but maybe it's just game related.
- promotion: when a general promotes, the nr of stars doesn't change on his icon. it changes of the right-hand detail window, but not on the bottom unit window. just a bit confusing.
- Cintra is well publicized which will be clearer for newcomers.
will report further remarks as I progress.

thanks again for the update.

Just out of curiosity, that so many generals can command units of another nation or even multiple nations is that based on historical facts or just to keep them working with what is under their command?
I know I was the one who was asking if for some change in that area because if such units would be dissolved you couldn't get them back together, but now they can use them without any penalty although I don't know how high this penalty was it may well have an impact in such scenarios as the Russian campaign.

BigDuke66 wrote:Just out of curiosity, that so many generals can command units of another nation or even multiple nations is that based on historical facts or just to keep them working with what is under their command?
I know I was the one who was asking if for some change in that area because if such units would be dissolved you couldn't get them back together, but now they can use them without any penalty although I don't know how high this penalty was it may well have an impact in such scenarios as the Russian campaign.

I can answer that.
In fact, for most it was not strictly based in historical facts (which does not mean that some or most cases are not according to history - many english and french generals in fact commanded multi-national unities/divisions).
We just agreed that at this time of the game "development" it would be better to assume that the original OOB decisions were correct and change the general's abilities accordingly, to avoid the situation of the player dissolving the divisions and be unable to recreate them. It also permits more variety and choices for the player in organizing his forces. As a player I always like to have more choices.

This was my suggestion and I stand by it. I agree that is debatable but I think in this way the game makes more "sense".

Regards

Franciscus wrote:I can answer that.
In fact, for most it was not strictly based in historical facts (which does not mean that some or most cases are not according to history - many english and french generals in fact commanded multi-national unities/divisions).
We just agreed that at this time of the game "development" it would be better to assume that the original OOB decisions were correct and change the general's abilities accordingly, to avoid the situation of the player dissolving the divisions and be unable to recreate them. It also permits more variety and choices for the player in organizing his forces. As a player I always like to have more choices.

This was my suggestion and I stand by it. I agree that is debatable but I think in this way the game makes more "sense".

Regards

Historically speaking the divisions would always incorporate foreign elements, an evolution from mercenaries times. Swiss, Irish, Scottish or German would always figure on both sides. French as well with Emigrés.
Then for generals to command such armies, they would rely on their aides-de-camp who may have linguistic skills. France was helped greatly with Rhine Confederate armies thanks to its officers from Alsace. Or have the skills themselves : the likes of Kleber, Rapp, Klein or Kellermann (father & son) could issue their orders directly in both french or German. Polish aides-de-camp were also very valued.
So I think that apart from officers with such skills or of national origin (Italian, etc) it is hard to claim that historically the General can command foreign troops. Aide-de-camp had a high level of casualties and would change job frequently in their career, so the ability of the general to command foreign units would suddenly be affected..
Also to consider is the fact that French at the time was like English today, and officers of foreign regiments were usually of noble origins and as such educated at speaking French. I would expect English and Spanish generals to exchange in French..

So to conclude, in game development, I'd only give ability to command foreign troops to Generals with known linguistic skills or foreign origin.

Hi Amaury.

I agree with you, of course.
But you have to understand the situation. We are talking of a 4-year old game. About this specific problem, what the player saw until now were some multinational divisions at the startup of scenarios, led by generals without multinational abilities, thus violating a game rule and worse, if the player wanted to rearrange his forces, he was not able to reform those same divisions.

So, what could we do ?:

- nothing: of course, always an option
- change the rules, allowing any general to lead units of every nationality - completely unhistorical, IMHO.
- research extensively to check which general at each time led multinational divisions and: give only multinational abilities to those generals; and redo all the scenarios OOBs if they are wrong: that is completely unrealistically, no one is available or willing to do this at this point.
- assume that the original OObs were adequately researched, and that generals that are leading multinational divisions are doing so because they did and they could, at some point in time. And according to game rules if they can they must have the corresponding abilities. That's what has been proposed in these latest patches, for the good of game coherence, playability and "fun", maintaining (some) historical realism.

Of course, if you want, all this, I believe, is moddable (although the abilities of a specific general must be the same in every scenario he enters, due to game limitations)

Anyhow what's best is that an effort is being done to improve this game, and it's starting to show, because it's wonderful that we are discussing it again.


Best regards

If the aides-de-camp really played such in important role for commanding foreign troops but there is nothing in game to simulate this I would go with Franciscus decission to give those generals the ability to lead the foreign troops under his command.
Not perfect but what can you do, add a new unit to simulate the aides-de-camp? Too much work besides it's already hard enough to find info about all those generals.

But Amaury mentions:
"Also to consider is the fact that French at the time was like English today, and officers of foreign regiments were usually of noble origins and as such educated at speaking French."
So we can consider that a lot troops of foreign heritage could be lead even if no aides-de-camp is there and the general speaks only French.

In the light of this I wonder if the approach for this "commanding foreign troops" problem shouldn't concentrate on the language but more on the "relationship" between that general and his foreign troops.
A general that doesn't care about is foreign troops, doesn't learn how to use them best and is also biased about them & their country(or maybe the country is biased about him & his country) where those troops come from will like don't get the combat power out that these troops could provide and so he deserves a combat penalty.


Btw the manual & wiki always mention a penalty for leading foreign troops without such abilities but I can't find any info on how high this is besides when missing these abilities you can't lead foreign troops at all unless you start the scenario with them. That's also why I expected to see this prohibition to be lifted and to allow every general to lead every foreign unit but missing the appropriate abilities he would lead them with a penalty(if there really is one in the code).

BigDuke66 wrote:Btw the manual & wiki always mention a penalty for leading foreign troops without such abilities but I can't find any info on how high this is besides when missing these abilities you can't lead foreign troops at all unless you start the scenario with them. That's also why I expected to see this prohibition to be lifted and to allow every general to lead every foreign unit but missing the appropriate abilities he would lead them with a penalty(if there really is one in the code).

I also do not know exactly what is the penalty...

Your sugestion is good, of course, but I think it would require code changes in the game exe, specific for NCP, and this, AFAIK will not be done anymore. But maybe it's a good sugestion for NCP2

Regards

Franciscus wrote:I also do not know exactly what is the penalty...

Your sugestion is good, of course, but I think it would require code changes in the game exe, specific for NCP, and this, AFAIK will not be done anymore. But maybe it's a good sugestion for NCP2

Regards

As far as the game development or enhancement is concerned, I have no issue. Choosing according to initial OOBs is fine by me. I was just making a comment. IMHO it's not a priority in terms of enhancement.
I think the HQ replacement discussed in the other thread should get priority.
Again thanks for continuous efforts!

I'm having the same issue with this version of the 1.09 patch as I had with the prior one; namely that any scenario I start after the patch has the OOB completely messed up, with incorrect leaders and wrong portraits. I can patch with 1.08 with no issues. I've tried installing the base game (1.01 is what I have) and then this patch, and installing 1.09 RC4 over 1.08. I've also completely uninstalled the game, performed a new clean uninstall (even manually deleted any remaining traces I could find and rebooted), and installed this patch without playing first and end up with the same issues.

I posted a screen capture of what the issue looked like right before the forum hack. I can probably grab another one if need be. I'm not sure what's happening with my install since others clearly aren't having issues, but something's not right.

demiller wrote:I'm having the same issue with this version of the 1.09 patch as I had with the prior one; namely that any scenario I start after the patch has the OOB completely messed up, with incorrect leaders and wrong portraits. I can patch with 1.08 with no issues. I've tried installing the base game (1.01 is what I have) and then this patch, and installing 1.09 RC4 over 1.08. I've also completely uninstalled the game, performed a new clean uninstall (even manually deleted any remaining traces I could find and rebooted), and installed this patch without playing first and end up with the same issues.

I posted a screen capture of what the issue looked like right before the forum hack. I can probably grab another one if need be. I'm not sure what's happening with my install since others clearly aren't having issues, but something's not right.

Welcome to the forum!

I'm sorry you are having a problem...
...and I'm guessing you are running under either Vista or Windows 7?

Try the reinstall described at the Wiki [section 3 of the linked page]:
You should also run the installation exe as described in section 2 of same page...

http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/Vista_Saved_Games

Excellent! That completely solved the issue. Glad it was a Win 7 compatibility issue on my end and not a weird patch thing. Thanks for the quick response.