A Bug in the supply system?

[aryaman]

Hi
I am playing a PBEM Russian Campaign as French, I made a very bold advance in the first turns, outrunning my supply lines, so i found myself in deep supply problems, I had several corps running out of supply, however in the end I lost no unit for lack of supply. That seemed strange, so i decided to run a test. In the Russian Campaign, with AI not activated, I send Latour-Mabourg Cavalry corps (with no supply wagon) to the heart pf Prypiat forests, isolated. Turn after Turn that force is in minimum supply, yet it is only after 15 turns that I start losing units for lack of supply, so I wonder, is the supply system working as designed???

[PhilThib]

It should.. have you considered the time of the year, where units can forage? Nevertheless you are right, in the example you show the corps should have vanished in 2 months or so...

[aryaman]

It should.. have you considered the time of the year, where units can forage? Nevertheless you are right, in the example you show the corps should have vanished in 2 months or so...

After additional testing, it seems that units are only destroyed by lack of supply in harsh weather conditions, otherwise they seem to get supply somehow, and manage to avoid destruction, even when a turn before they are "in red" and listed as partially unsupplied in the log.

[PhilThib]

You are right, units takes "hits" (i.e. real losses) only during bad weather. If unsupplied, they lose cohesion up to the maximum (which means they would get destroyed if attacked). We considered they did not 'vanished' but are militarily useless.

May be we could consider having them taking hits at some point.

[Pocus]

I checked the code and units can starve to death, no problem. If they don't, then perhaps you are living off the land, if the troop density is not too high. I would be surprised to see a bug here, as the AACW crowd would have spotted it. Perhaps supply is simply too generous in Napoleon's Campaigns.

[aryaman]

I checked the code and units can starve to death, no problem. If they don't, then perhaps you are living off the land, if the troop density is not too high. I would be surprised to see a bug here, as the AACW crowd would have spotted it. Perhaps supply is simply too generous in Napoleon's Campaigns.

Ok, La Tour Maubourg corps of 9500 men and 6000 horses was maybe too small, so I run a test with a larger force, here are the results

Trn2 A large cavalry corps under La Tour Maubourg is created (25.000 men, 24.000 horses, 48 guns)
Trn 4 force arrives to Stolin (close to Pinsk) it is isolated in enemy territory. (24.000 men, 24.000 horses, 39 guns) Supply stock 105 (52%) usage 96/turn
Trn 5, 24k/24K, 40 guns, Supply 9 (4%) CP 379
Trn 6 17.500/17.000, 34 guns SS 1(1%) CP 277, 1 unit destroyed
Trn 7, 17.200/16.800, 30 guns CP 274
Trn 8 14.700/14.200, 30 guns, CP 259 1 unit destroyed
Trn 9 14.700/14.200, 30 guns, CP 269,
Trn 10 12.300/12.000,22 guns, CP 212, 3 units destroyed
Trn 11 9.400/9.200, 13 guns, CP 153, 9 units destroyed
Trn 12 8.400/8.200, 9 guns, CP 140, 8 units destroyed
Trn 13 3.200/3.100, 5 guns, CP 50, 11 units destroyed
Trn 14 2.600/2.600, CP 33, 6 units destroyed
Trn 15 2.000/2.000, CP 29, 5 units destroyed
Trn 16 980/980, CP 13, 2 units destroyed

COMMENTS
1) Units are destroyed indeed by lack of supply if the force is large enough
2) Lack of supply penalties are much lighter than in AACW
3) Units don´t take cohesion hits, they are capable of fighting despite of being out of supply for several turns
4) Leaders if attached to divisions can be destroyed, but if unattached they are never affected by lack of supply or harsh weather
5) Units are destroyed division after division, the force had 5 divisions, and while one division was losing units the others were unaffected in strenght or cohesion.

Whatever the reason, it seems there is need for some tweaking in the supply system

[PhilThib]

Good points, we shall investigate then

[aryaman]

Maybe, as Pocus suggested, there is too much supply available in the game. One thing I have noticed is that, unlike AACW, when you take a depot the supply stockpiled is not destroyed, that allows the attacking player to go after supply, instead of relying on his suppy line.

[Pocus]

Can you send me the current test game with some turns of backups? You know my address.

[Pocus]

Here is a new version of the executable only if you want to test. There was no obvious bug in the various supply procedures, but too much leniency one could say

You will find that units suffer much more from lack of supply now. I'll spare you the percentages, but before this was really too easy to be sustained even in a swamp swept by a dire blizzard

Something to also consider, is that the rural supply level for NCP are twice as high as for the others games. This is to simulate the common practice of living on the land, but rest assured, you'll see plenty of swift death nonetheless now...

As for the division got damaged or spared entirely, this is exact. The supply is done by unit, so if the division forage, then it is supplied as a whole for a full turn. If it fails... it takes hits, as a whole.

Cohesion should now be reduced progressively, again, the system was too easy (parameters were not optimal...).

[aryaman]

I couldn´t test the .exe, I got an error while generating AI files, attached the log file

[Pocus]

Right... you should update your Aliases directory and your gamedata directory with these 2 folders:

[Paul Roberts]

Right... you should update your Aliases directory and your gamedata directory with these 2 folders:

I'd like to try these, but I'm confused. Where exactly do they go? Do they overwrite something?

[Primasprit]

I'd like to try these, but I'm confused. Where exactly do they go? Do they overwrite something?

The alias files go to:
[Game Directory]\ACW\Aliases\

and the AI files to:
[Game Directory]\ACW\GameData\AI\

Yes, the overwrite existing files.

Cheers
Norbert