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ajarnlance
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Napoleon's Campaigns 2 is going to be the next release!!! yehhhhhhhhhhhh!!

Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:58 pm

Vive le empereur!! Pocus just confirmed that NCP2 is going to be the team's next game!! The empereur is returning from exile on Elba to take Europe by storm again!! Awesome news!!! Yehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! Can't wait!! :)
"I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than the dissolution of the Union... and I am willing to sacrifice everything but honor for its preservation." Robert E. Lee (1807-1870)

Check out my 'To End All Wars' AAR: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?38262-The-Kaiser-report-the-CP-side-of-the-war-against-Jinx-and-PJL

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Matto
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Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:43 am

Really??? GREAT!!! :thumbsup:
Napoleon days in Austerlitz 2011 - photo gallery
My Czech pages agout AGEOD: AGEOD games, RoP AAR - Prussian side
My AGEOD games: WoN, TYW, EAW, CW2, AJE, PoN, NCP, ROP Gold, RUS Gold and BOA2

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Bernadotte
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Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:57 pm

Yeah, realy great news !!
I could live without a grand campaign.
I just want the newest AGE-Engine, newest map and fewer bugs !! :cool:

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FENRIS
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Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:31 pm

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ! vive l'Empereur !!! avec une grande campagne enfin....


Youooooooooooou !!!

:thumbsup:
[color="#FF8C00"][/color]Eylau 1807

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Bart
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Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:55 pm

Allé voir le bicentenaire de la bataille à Waterloo et jouer à NCP2 le soir? Un rêve! :) :) :) :) :)

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Pocus
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Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:02 am

Yes there will be an official announcement, then new forums. For now we can only confirm that there will be a Grand Campaign indeed :)
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

MarshalJean
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Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:51 pm

YES!!!! BEST NEWS EVER!!!

Vive l'Empereur!!!

Will buy on release!!

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ajarnlance
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Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:22 pm

Pocus wrote: For now we can only confirm that there will be a Grand Campaign indeed :)


TAKE MY MONEY NOW.................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't wait to play with the GRAND CAMPAIGN... AWESOME!! I love the Napoleonic era because all three branches of the military: infantry/ cavalry/ artillery, all had a very important role to play. I have been so impressed with EAW, but this could be the best ageod game ever.. with the new map it is going to be stunning...!!
"I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than the dissolution of the Union... and I am willing to sacrifice everything but honor for its preservation." Robert E. Lee (1807-1870)



Check out my 'To End All Wars' AAR: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?38262-The-Kaiser-report-the-CP-side-of-the-war-against-Jinx-and-PJL

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Sorel
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Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:02 pm

Without doubt, I´ll buy on release too (and usually don´t do it)

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Pocus
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Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:36 am

There are still some months of hard work before release though. We won't do early access :p
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

MarshalJean
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Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:59 pm

Pocus wrote:There are still some months of hard work before release though. We won't do early access :p



No problem, here. I can wait indefinitely. I'd rather have a great game than one quickly produced. Take your time. It's Napoleonics. The opportunities for strategy to meet aesthetics are endless.

So excited! Thanks for choosing this route, and for choosing a Grand Campaign!

MJ

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Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:52 pm


veji1
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Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:54 am

So many expectations for this game. I really hope they get key details right :
1/ Don't make french leadership too damn good, this messes up with game play. Instead give a "technological edge" to the french troops at the beginning of the game that they progressively lose or get evened out, for example :
- ability to build a level 1 depot (enough for 20/30 000 troops) in 0 turn so that imperial corps manage to almost always be in supply if not cut out (allowing for faster marching through ennemy territory).
- good disengaging abilities : a french corps faced with way stronger ennemies manages to disengage a lot better than an austrian/prussian/russian corps
etc. These are just a few examples.

2/ proper turn length/map size and interaction between both. This game is about time and space. If the interaction is good (the original AACW 2weeks turn with the map scale it had worked beautifully) it's perfect, if out of wack... a european map needs smaller provinces than in NCP. for a Napoleonic game where armies started moving a lot faster than in 18th century warfare, ROP size provinces and weekly turns would be the best from an operational point of view.

3/ taking into account key geographical features and chokepoints that played key roles in campaigns : mountain and hill chains / Rivers and their corollaries passes /bridges and the forts and fortified cities defending those chokepoints. These was key in Napoleonic warfare just as in 18th century warfare, the difference being that Napoleon moved a lot faster, but he nevertheless need the bridges or passes to be operationnaly free. Many of his campaigns were centered on control of these chokepoints : Alexandria and then Mantova in 1796/1797 for the Po bridges, Regensburg in the 1809 campaign, crossing of the Donau in the 1809 campaign, etc. I suggested in the european map thread that an interesting feature would be to make some fortresses "control" premimu crossing of one of those barriers : If you control Maastricht (left bank but bridges), you can cross on to the Maas both ways paying only the minor river penalty rather than the major one. Same for Regensburg and the Donau, Mantova and the Po, etc... same for a few passes in the game. This would make control of the key chokepoints and fortresses the essential, if unknown, aspect of napoleonic wars it really was, tying down operations to their theater.

These are just some ideas, but I hope those details will all be emulated well.

veji1
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Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:55 am

double post.

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PhilThib
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Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:59 am

The game will use the map scale and design of the Large Europe Project....so any new feedback / revival / post on that thread will be more than useful.

There: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?24730-The-Larger-Europe-Map-Project&highlight=Large+Europe
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risorgimento59
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Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:11 pm

Great news. I'll buy it for sure. :)

Just one question, however: is there any chance to get a more realistic diplomacy simulation of Napoleonic Wars too in the grand campaign?

I mean even modelling things like political factions, royal houses, coups, exiles, marriages, loans and initial mistrusts in coalition warfare, compensations in treaties, protectorates, and so on.

Was reading Napoleon's Wars - An international history by Charles Esdaile recently and I found it very enlightening on these subjects.

Please also consider to add a good recruitment and training system for the units (conscriptions/volunteers/quotas, cadres/supply/manpower/horses as resources, depots btns, etc.).

Good luck. ;)

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Prussian Konig
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Wed Nov 26, 2014 3:06 pm

Grand Campaign?.....Grand Campaign?!.....GRAND CAMPAIGN!!!!!!!! Will definitely buy on release!
Beta Tester HOI 3, EUII. AACW2 & To End All Wars!

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ajarnlance
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Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:08 pm

risorgimento59 wrote:Great news. I'll buy it for sure. :)

Just one question, however: is there any chance to get a more realistic diplomacy simulation of Napoleonic Wars too in the grand campaign?

I mean even modelling things like political factions, royal houses, coups, exiles, marriages, loans and initial mistrusts in coalition warfare, compensations in treaties, protectorates, and so on.

Was reading Napoleon's Wars - An international history by Charles Esdaile recently and I found it very enlightening on these subjects.

Please also consider to add a good recruitment and training system for the units (conscriptions/volunteers/quotas, cadres/supply/manpower/horses as resources, depots btns, etc.).

Good luck. ;)


+1. I've been reading the same book and I think that EAW is definitely moving diplomacy in the right direction BUT due to the greater length of a Napoleonic campaign (1805-1815 for example) the opportunities to expand diplomacy are very exciting. Napoleon was a master of using treaties to his advantage.. there should be more options for the terms/ duration of treaties etc... that way there could be periods of peace in between major conflicts where countries rebuild.. maneuver for the next strike etc... maybe look at diplomacy in PON for inspiration here as well..
"I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than the dissolution of the Union... and I am willing to sacrifice everything but honor for its preservation." Robert E. Lee (1807-1870)



Check out my 'To End All Wars' AAR: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?38262-The-Kaiser-report-the-CP-side-of-the-war-against-Jinx-and-PJL

veji1
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Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:50 am

Sure a good diplomatic engine would be great, but I think we shouldn't lose focus of the key for the game's success : succeed in making the operational wargame aspect of the game fun and credible, as in it gives you the proper feeling of the napleonic wars. This to me is the key. This was the key difference between AACW and NCP, and explained more than anything their differing success. When you played AACW, it played great, suddenly you had this wargame that wasn't a tactical game (aka Robert Lee General and stuff) or a "arcade Civil War game" like many others. It was fun yet felt historical in many ways, in terms of army size, type of operations, losses, leaders, strengths and weaknesses of both sides, etc... Sure like in all computer games, once clever players start optimizing the system to its limits, it loses some of its charm. But it worked great. I only played against the AI and despite its flaws I had many fun campaigns where I felt like I was a southern or northern general.

in NCP, the wargame was flawed because the engine couldn't cope with the ill adapted province size / turn length for a european theater of operations with good roads, couldn't cope with the domino effect of the splendid french leadership and troop quality meaning Napoleon was virtually unbeatable, and therefore lacked historical variation in how the campaigns unfolded.

To me a good enough diplomatic engine (you already have it between EAW and other games) is enough, the key is the operational wargame. Give me the proper feel for a 1809 campagin, an 1805 campaign, etc.

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PhilThib
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Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:06 pm

veji1 wrote:in NCP, the wargame was flawed because the engine couldn't cope with the ill adapted province size / turn length for a european theater of operations with good roads, couldn't cope with the domino effect of the splendid french leadership and troop quality meaning Napoleon was virtually unbeatable, and therefore lacked historical variation in how the campaigns unfolded.

To me a good enough diplomatic engine (you already have it between EAW and other games) is enough, the key is the operational wargame. Give me the proper feel for a 1809 campagin, an 1805 campaign, etc.


The doubling of number of regions and the 7-days turns will do a lot in that aspect, I am sure. :thumbsup:
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marek1978
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Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:38 pm

PhilThib wrote:The doubling of number of regions and the 7-days turns will do a lot in that aspect, I am sure. :thumbsup:


Seriously ? 7 days a turn?

I guess it is going to be like i EAW - grand campaign with 2 weeks turns and short campaign, like 1809 with one week turn?

Double the number of province from NCP, does it mean higher density then in EAW, Rise of Prussia one? Cause for me that was your best game ever, i would say that one week turns and such a map would be great, question is whether still playable?

One more question,
Are there going to be some scenarios before 1805?
Maybe polish russian war from 1792

I know it is not napoleonic, but i could not stop myself from asking....

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Bernadotte
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Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:42 pm

I hope you get it finished in time for the 200th anniversary of the "Battle of Waterloo" ! :thumbsup:

veji1
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Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:23 pm

PhilThib wrote:The doubling of number of regions and the 7-days turns will do a lot in that aspect, I am sure. :thumbsup:


It sure will ! ROP had the perfect scale for a Napoleonic wargame, NCP just had too big provinces, and it ended up with big blobs blasting each other. Good job !

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ajarnlance
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Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:54 am

veji1 wrote:It sure will ! ROP had the perfect scale for a Napoleonic wargame, NCP just had too big provinces, and it ended up with big blobs blasting each other. Good job !


This means that a grand campaign will be HUGE... 7-day turns means 52 turns per year... the 10 years from 1805 to 1815 would take 520 turns... that's fine with me... I love huge, complex, long games :)
Maybe one way to shorten the number of turns in a grand campaign would be to allow for treaties and periods of peace in between conflicts like IRL. During the peaceful turns the game could allow for strategic redeployment and have one-month turns... just an idea...
"I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than the dissolution of the Union... and I am willing to sacrifice everything but honor for its preservation." Robert E. Lee (1807-1870)



Check out my 'To End All Wars' AAR: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?38262-The-Kaiser-report-the-CP-side-of-the-war-against-Jinx-and-PJL

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PhilThib
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Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:49 am

The idea of altering turn duration is under studay, but that is not so easy. However, in a big grand campaign, it is more than likely that there will be no peace period (i.e. more than likely that Britain and France will be at war most of the time)
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veji1
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Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:02 pm

PhilThib wrote:The idea of altering turn duration is under studay, but that is not so easy. However, in a big grand campaign, it is more than likely that there will be no peace period (i.e. more than likely that Britain and France will be at war most of the time)


the difficulty of a grand campaign, is that players should "lose control" of their troops during peace time, ie volunteers would go back home, some regiments would be dissolved, army would downsize, etc... I hope we won't see a game where the french army keeps growing during peace time... I don't want to have a french army standing at 800 000 in 1810. The 1812 massive army took time to build with a specific campaign in mind, it wasn't just standing around.

Jagger2013
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Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:50 pm

In most Ageod games, there is a cost to build a unit but no cost per turn to maintain a unit except supply. If there were a per turn $/WS cost just to maintain units in the field, just like units use supplies every turn, then players would disband units when not needed or only maintain cadres to save money and war supplies. If a unit cost $/WS every turn, you would think twice about building units and worry about going broke if you didn't disband them when not needed. And with maintainance costs per unit, the total size of armies/navies would be directly related to the size of the economy, obtaining reparations or adding lucrative provinces to your empire.

veji1
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Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:21 pm

Jagger2013 wrote:In most Ageod games, there is a cost to build a unit but no cost per turn to maintain a unit except supply. If there were a per turn $/WS cost just to maintain units in the field, just like units use supplies every turn, then players would disband units when not needed or only maintain cadres to save money and war supplies. If a unit cost $/WS every turn, you would think twice about building units and worry about going broke if you didn't disband them when not needed. And with maintainance costs per unit, the total size of armies/navies would be directly related to the size of the economy, obtaining reparations or adding lucrative provinces to your empire.


very true. A system where active units cost money to maintain but where "cadre" units cost a lot less but take time to fill up again once you mobilise them would be well balanced. Have cadre units with an activate toggle. When you tick it you can start using them again after 4 turns (a month) even though they only reach their top cohesion+numbers after 10 turns (2 months and half). This way for example the french empire could in a truce moment say autumn 1807 after having won a first set of wars keep just 150 000 active soldiers and reduce 150 000 more to cadre status that would be activated back in the early march to be ready to campaign in mid may.

A cadre unit could be for example a fixed unit (you would use it for garrisoning purpose : bring it to the place you want to garrison, tick the box, it becomes fixed the next turn) representing say 20% of a normal unit and costing 20% of the maintenance cost. Its biggest advantage would be that once fully refilled after 10 turns, it would be back to its experience and cohesion level of before, so you could do it with very good units. Meanwhile disbanding units would save you the whole money but it would mean raising new units with lower level of experience and cohesion. This would give player choices : what units to keep active, which ones to reduce to cadre level and use for garrison, which ones to disband.

Very very very good idea. I love it.

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ajarnlance
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Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:40 pm

veji1 wrote:very true. A system where active units cost money to maintain but where "cadre" units cost a lot less but take time to fill up again once you mobilise them would be well balanced. Have cadre units with an activate toggle. When you tick it you can start using them again after 4 turns (a month) even though they only reach their top cohesion+numbers after 10 turns (2 months and half). This way for example the french empire could in a truce moment say autumn 1807 after having won a first set of wars keep just 150 000 active soldiers and reduce 150 000 more to cadre status that would be activated back in the early march to be ready to campaign in mid may.

A cadre unit could be for example a fixed unit (you would use it for garrisoning purpose : bring it to the place you want to garrison, tick the box, it becomes fixed the next turn) representing say 20% of a normal unit and costing 20% of the maintenance cost. Its biggest advantage would be that once fully refilled after 10 turns, it would be back to its experience and cohesion level of before, so you could do it with very good units. Meanwhile disbanding units would save you the whole money but it would mean raising new units with lower level of experience and cohesion. This would give player choices : what units to keep active, which ones to reduce to cadre level and use for garrison, which ones to disband.

Very very very good idea. I love it.


+1 to both these ideas. The prohibitive national morale cost of disbanding units would have to removed though... the combination of precise operational level napoleonic warfare with the grand strategic and diplomatic considerations will be a delicate balancing act. I am very excited at the prospect of playing a game that manages to embrace both ends of the spectrum... even if the number of turns are huge.. I will probably play this for months of real time anyway... ;)
"I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than the dissolution of the Union... and I am willing to sacrifice everything but honor for its preservation." Robert E. Lee (1807-1870)



Check out my 'To End All Wars' AAR: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?38262-The-Kaiser-report-the-CP-side-of-the-war-against-Jinx-and-PJL

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ajarnlance
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Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:51 pm

PhilThib wrote:The idea of altering turn duration is under studay, but that is not so easy. However, in a big grand campaign, it is more than likely that there will be no peace period (i.e. more than likely that Britain and France will be at war most of the time)


Yes, it will be a delicate balancing act to cover the spectrum from precise operational warfare to the grand strategic and diplomatic/ economic considerations. I hope that the development team doesn't limit the length of the grand campaign too much because of the number of turns... Please be ambitious in the scope of the game. I would love to see 10-year campaigns possible over a HUGE map (just like EAW), even if it means 500 turns! Smaller campaigns could be available for less ambitious players... ;) I agree that periods of peace will be unlikely or very short lived... the potential for 'what if' alternate historical scenarios is fascinating to contemplate. I think EAW does a good job of guiding the player down the historical path while also leaving room for more plausible alternate historical events to occur. The prospect of multi-player PBEM is also very exciting with the different nations involved... IF I could make one request from ageod: please make ALL the major nations (France, Britain, Russia, Prussia, Austria) playable as SEPARATE entities ie all the orders for these nations could be submitted simultaneously by different players, instead of having to send files from one player to the next player because of the restrictions of having only three sides in EAW. Thanks!

PS I realise that having five different countries playable could produce a PON-like slow down in turn time for the AI. How about this for a solution:
1) in the options menu you choose AI or human opponent/multi-player
2) if against the AI then the game is split into two factions: Napoleon and his allies vs. the coalition countries
3) if PBEM multi-player then each of the five main nations are playable by a separate player who each submit their own .ord files individually

Would that work?
"I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than the dissolution of the Union... and I am willing to sacrifice everything but honor for its preservation." Robert E. Lee (1807-1870)



Check out my 'To End All Wars' AAR: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?38262-The-Kaiser-report-the-CP-side-of-the-war-against-Jinx-and-PJL

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