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Taciturn Scot
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NCP now or wait?

Thu May 09, 2013 8:31 am

I am very interested in picking this up but I've read a few posts suggesting that there will be a NCP2 at some point in the future, but no hints as to when this might become available. Is NCP2 on the horizon or is it safe to go ahead and buy this game to satisfy my craving for Napoleonic action for the foreseeable future?

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PhilThib
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Thu May 09, 2013 9:02 am

We shall decide during the summer what will be the next game after the upcoming CW2....now, if we don't survive the year (because of low sales), there won't be any game at all for sure :mdr:
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Taciturn Scot
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Fri May 10, 2013 3:09 am

Thanks for the reply. I guess I'll wait a bit then. I've already got a lot to get on with with Rise of Prussia (Gold now), Pride of Nations and The Great War Gold. But don't worry about losing a sale, it just means that I'll pick up Revolution under Siege and ACW2 instead. :thumbsup:

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Carnium
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Fri May 10, 2013 12:07 pm

NPC is a great game. It has not "full" campaign, but the Peninsular one is HUGE and other smaller ones are well worth your time (and money). On top of that, the graphic in NPC is really beautiful and colourful. A forgotten gem IMHO.

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8thTnCav
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Sun May 12, 2013 4:18 pm

A forgotten gem, indeed.

I would love to see it with the enhancements of ROP Gold.

A true NCP2, like ACW2, would be an automatic purchase for me.
More scenarios for NCP (Italian Campaigns, Egypt, longer Germany 1813) would be great.

I still don't get the need for a Grand Campaign. The Napoleonic Wars were a series of discrete conflicts and without a political layer, which changes the scope of the game from the operational to the strategic level, it doesn't seem like a good fit to me. March of the Eagles is good enough for the strategic level, which is far more divergent from the historical path. Smaller scenarios allow for a greater, more intimate appreciation of the constraints facing commanders in the field and on campaign.

Just my two cents. We all like what we like.

AGEOD makes the best operational games around for Early Modern pre-twentieth century warfare. Nothing else is even remotely comparable.

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JacquesDeLalaing
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Mon May 13, 2013 9:08 am

8thTnCav wrote:
I still don't get the need for a Grand Campaign. The Napoleonic Wars were a series of discrete conflicts and without a political layer, which changes the scope of the game from the operational to the strategic level, it doesn't seem like a good fit to me. March of the Eagles is good enough for the strategic level, which is far more divergent from the historical path. Smaller scenarios allow for a greater, more intimate appreciation of the constraints facing commanders in the field and on campaign.

AGEOD makes the best operational games around for Early Modern pre-twentieth century warfare. Nothing else is even remotely comparable.


Quoted for truth! :D I'm so happy with the 3 smaller scenarios that came with ROP gold. I'm a big fan of the "smaller" scale. All the great mechanisms that the engine offers (cohesion, attrition, military control, reconnaissance, etc.) tend to get overlooked when you're in command of 5 armies on 3 fronts and move around mega-stacks. The more focus on the core of the operational level, and the less focus on meta-considerations (reinforcements/recruitment, political desicions), the better!
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PhilThib
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Mon May 13, 2013 9:30 am

You'll probably be please because the main improvement of a NCP2 when it comes will be the doubling of map size, giving even more operational depth to the game. If you want a glimpse of that map (and help on finishing it), have a look at the Larger European Map project on this forum (see here: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?24730-The-Larger-Europe-Map-Project&highlight=Europe+Map) :cool:
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jack54
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Sun May 26, 2013 12:41 am

After lurking around a bit and playing the demo a while back.. I took a chance and so far NO regrets. Quite different than the 1.04 demo IMHO! I have very little knowledge of the Napoleon era and it has been my experience that AGEOD games have a way of forcing me to learn things sometimes the hard way (on the battlefield LOL)and sometimes just by whetting the appetite so to speak. Anyway I feel this will help get me ready if Nappy2 shows up; after AACW 2 of course.

Now to find time... RUS,AJE,... the list goes on :)
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agathosdaimon
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Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:10 am

I hope dearly that NCP2 gets made, its a shame that such quality companies like AGEOD should even have to face the possiblity of closure at all - its just not right! I will certainly buy Civil War 2 and have just recently bought Rise of Prussia Gold through matrix.

I like Rise of Prussia in its scale and options and can see how well this could be developed in NCP2

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Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:10 am

8thTnCav wrote:
I still don't get the need for a Grand Campaign. The Napoleonic Wars were a series of discrete conflicts and without a political layer, which changes the scope of the game from the operational to the strategic level, it doesn't seem like a good fit to me. March of the Eagles is good enough for the strategic level, which is far more divergent from the historical path. Smaller scenarios allow for a greater, more intimate appreciation of the constraints facing commanders in the field and on campaign.


Agreed to some extent. A big grand campaign whether 1803-1815 or else makes little sense, it is too complicated and open ended and the more you diverge from history the more it turns into a very enjoyable Empire in Arms type of game.

Nevertheless some form of intermediate grand campaigns would be a real bonus, giving you some strategic and diplomatic depth, with for example the french player trying to prevent such or such country from entering the coalition, etc...

In That respect one can of course see a 1805-1808/9 type of game which would be emulating the situation of Napoleon facing coalition led by the UK with Austria and Russia in, then Prussia, then Russia back. Historically one can trace a clear continuity from the beginning of that war to the victory in Friedland in June 1807 that closes the continental part of it. in real life it lasted a bit less then 2 years, but one can imagine the conflict dragging on for some time. One can imagine variable sudden victory conditions (ie in real life it was something like :"UK fully isolated again, no ennemy standing on the continent = Victory) and a calendar end (12/1808 ? even 1809?) where VPs and NM get measured.

Same for other time frames.

So basically my hope would be to get biggish campaigns that are long and big enough to get to enjoy a more diplomatic interface (which country enters the war on which side, etc...) and the grand operational choices ie how do you deploy when Prussia threatens to enter the war, etc... The game would have to be able to manage some of the lower intensity months of course. Add to that the short scenarios when you want to enjoy just a peculiar conflict, and you get a good balance.

So for me I would like to see the following longish scenarios :
- Spring 1805 to end 1808 or beyond
- Peninsular campaign of course
- a 1809 to openended scenario (1812 ?) which could see an early fall of the empire : Failing to defeat Austria would lead Russia and or Prussia back into the war
- a 1813-1815 scenario : have to separate the Russian campaign i think which is so different, in this scenario you get the whole german/french campaign. Can Napoleon beat back the Russians and Prussians, prevent Austria from entering the conflict ? failing so can he hold long and well enough to get an acceptable peace (ie stay in power, keep the west bank of the Rhine) because the allies get tired of the war ?
- a 1815-1816 campaign : if Napoleon wins at Waterloo he has to turn his sights to the russian/austrian armies, hoping to force a whitishpeace...

Add to that the different short campaign scenarios and I would be very happy.

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Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:47 pm

Perhaps we could get a glimpse into Napoleons early career? (Italy and Egypt)

A couple of larger campaigns would be an excellent addition, and hopefully most, if not all, of the old campaigns would make a return as well.

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Durk
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Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:26 am

If two cents is the price of admission to this forum thread, my two cents have been deposited.

I am a real fan of a Grand Campaign game. Like many other commentators, the Napoleon franchise is the property and the providence of the Ageod team. They will do it right.

I think the WIA model is the correct solution. A grand campaign or even two or three start dates, with several scenarios. An 1805 start date would be the regular grand campaign.

Contrary to many forum commentators, I do not think a grand campaign must of necessity result in ahistoric results. Diplomacy was the spirit of the age. It would require a new diplomacy interface, not just with us and against us as in current games. A couple of board games and some computer games of more recent wars provide some ideas of solutions. Britain and France, of course, are the game long adversaries. The core would be the interface bringing the other major powers into coalition with each dominant powers.
I have messed around with a mod for some time, but do not have the mod skills to pull it all together, but it has led me to some conclusions about how a grand campaign could work. With the recent addition of Decision Options in AJE/BOR and RoP Gold, this has become more possible.
Essentially, Napoleon has powerful negotiating options when he wins a campaign. Britain has a similar effect when it has troops or money present. Ambassadors, money, prestige all contribute. Something like how Foreign intervention is handled in WIA and ACW set the possibilities. Player choices and actions for each other nation determine some outcomes. Game events also play a role.

I hope the opportunity to produce a new Napoleon game becomes a reality. If it does, the new game should have a host of small and medium campaigns. But at least a few, grand campaign options. Maybe these:
1799 to 1815 as a corollary to the 1775 grand campaign in WIA where history is just an idea of how the game is played; and
1805 to 1815 as a corollary to 1776 where history is a pretty decent guide.
The smaller scenarios and campaigns suggested by others like veji1's thoughtful start points would simply enrich the players connection to the game.

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Templer
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Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:06 am

PhilThib wrote:...if we don't survive the year ...

Is this serious? :confused:
If this is a joke - I can not laugh - not even smile.
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ajarnlance
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Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:54 pm

I agree!! The lack of a grand campaign was highlighted by many reviewers and was the main reason I didn't buy NCP. I would definitely buy NCP2 IF it included an grand campaign. I love the combination of strategy and tactics!! And why not have the opportunity to rewrite history!!

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Durk
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Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:51 am

Well - Do not let lack of a Grand Campaign keep you away. It is a great game which will only get greater.

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Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:30 pm

Durk wrote:Well - Do not let lack of a Grand Campaign keep you away. It is a great game which will only get greater.


:thumbsup:

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helm123
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Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:54 am

I would certainly purchase a new Nappy game day one. I'd love to see it with the same scope as ACW2. Had high hopes that AGEOD would have done the Paradox title.
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Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:29 am

Somehow I think we can be glad the Paradox hasn't anything to do anymore with a possible NCP2.
BTW ROP 2 would be great too, as the same new Europe map could be used.
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PhilThib
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Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:59 am

The idea behind a larger European map is indeed to allow extended version of many conflicts with the proper operational scale ;)
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Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:37 pm

Well I won't stop you! :thumbsup:
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ajarnlance
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Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:43 am

PhilThib wrote:We shall decide during the summer what will be the next game after the upcoming CW2....now, if we don't survive the year (because of low sales), there won't be any game at all for sure :mdr:


Did you decide on Napoleon's campaigns 2 as the next game? Please give us a hint! :)
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PhilThib
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Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:55 am

Not decided yet, it will be discussed during our upcoming annual meeting with Matrix/Slitherine (does not mean we shall be entitled to reveal it :mdr :)
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Taillebois
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Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:32 pm

Whatever game you choose please add a beginner/Arcade level or two so that people new to the game can get some sort of quick victory without hours of manual study or searching through forums - which most won't do but just give up.

I bought three sets of AGEOD's Military Strategies and gave them to people I know who had expressed some interest in history/wargames - but once they saw the size of the manual and the complexity they gave up.

Panther Games (Command Ops); Battlefront (Combat Mission) and AGEOD developers often say we are a niche market, "it's different from Total War/Europa Universalis/Call of Duty" or somesuch. No it's not. It's a wargame for adults or clever kids. Making the bloody things too difficult is what curtails the market.

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PhilThib
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Sat Nov 02, 2013 5:38 pm

Taillebois wrote:Whatever game you choose please add a beginner/Arcade level or two so that people new to the game can get some sort of quick victory without hours of manual study or searching through forums - which most won't do but just give up.

I bought three sets of AGEOD's Military Strategies and gave them to people I know who had expressed some interest in history/wargames - but once they saw the size of the manual and the complexity they gave up.

Panther Games (Command Ops); Battlefront (Combat Mission) and AGEOD developers often say we are a niche market, "it's different from Total War/Europa Universalis/Call of Duty" or somesuch. No it's not. It's a wargame for adults or clever kids. Making the bloody things too difficult is what curtails the market.


Yes, fully agreed... we need to offer some "lighter" choices to players :w00t:
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Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:40 pm

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?20078-Money-for-AGEOD
ERISS wrote:I think AGE games need an attractive simple game to learn the engine. Maybe later those who'll like it would need more, or more serious, like those History AGE games already done.

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Taciturn Scot
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Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:40 am

Well, after several months andd with no sign of a NCP2 on the horizon, I finally took the plunge and am in the process of downloading this title. Since I picked up BOA2 WIA earlier this week, that means I have every AGEOD title except the two ACW games. It will take me quite a while to really get through these games but I'm sure I'll have fun doing so.

FWIW, I have found getting into some of the newer, bigger games quite a challenge. I love playing ROP and RUS for example and they start small but they rapidly grow until I feel overwhelmed and am not quite so sure of what I'm doing. I'm hoping that these two games will be easier to manage, as well as the shorter time span of the Napoleonic scenarios. I can't wait to play the Austerlitz, 1812 and the 1813 scenarios.

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Taciturn Scot
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Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:36 am

So far, my first impressions of this title are so good that it makes me wish that I'd bought this as my first AGEOD game. After going through the tutorial missions to see if there's anything different, (there is) I'm now playing the shorter Jena campaign as the French and am really enjoying the small scale. Logistics are so important in AGEOD games and at last, here I have a game where I can learn the finer points of supply without having to fight on three or four distinctly different fronts at a time. There's also a naval battle, Trafalgar, which will help me to become familiar with AGEOD naval actions.

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Taciturn Scot
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Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:09 am

Me again. I think one of the biggest mistakes I'm making while playing any AGEOD game is playing it like it's an 70's/80's AH board game with combat and movement factors. I've been puzzled when I lost battles hard when everything seemed to be in my favour, numbers, leadership etc but I hardly considered cohesion or supply, not to mention replacements. This was part of my downfall when playing as Prussia in RoP. I thought Freddie was a God of War but he lost heavily when the cohesions and casualties got to meaningful levels. I just wasn't taking them into account when planning my moves.

I've played everything so far like I'm playing a WW2 blitzkrieg, pushing each of my units as hard as possible each turn. With NC, I'm learning to slow the pace down considerably and allow my units plenty of time to rest after long marchess and battles so that they can recover cohesion and to billet some of them in cities/depots to receive replacements. It's making a big difference to my experience and I finally feel like I'm really beginning to understand these games.

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Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:30 pm

I've been puzzled when I lost battles hard when everything seemed to be in my favour, numbers, leadership etc but I hardly considered cohesion or supply, not to mention replacements.


Don't forget rain and mud. Can make a significant difference if one side has an artillery or numerical advantage

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Durk
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Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:49 am

I love reading this thread. Napoleon is a fine game. Learning AGEOD games is such a nice way to experience what is best in wargaming.

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