historical realism: NCP vs. AACW

[berto]

I am on the verge of purchasing NCP. Given its focus on battle and campaign scenarios, rather than a full war (with lots of non-combat micromanagement), it might be more to my liking (and accommodate better my very limited free time).

But how does NCP compare to AACW in the realism department? I mean to say, which game better models historical, real world conditions such as movement rates, force levels, battle losses, etc.? Although AACW is progressing in these areas, there are still too many jarring inconsistencies (between the game and historical realism) that spoil the experience for me (the latest being the excessive battle casualty rates in AACW).

Sorry, but I'm just too much of a grognard (and I've spent too many hours with Battles & Leaders of the Civil War) not to notice and be bothered by such things. apy:

So, does NCP do better than AACW in the historical realism department?

[FM WarB]

I have NCP, but not ACW. Following the ACW forum, I'm not ready to try ACW for the reasons you mentioned. I decided to buy NCP for basically the same reasons you mentioned.

I am a Nappy gamer more than anything else, mostly tactical games until NCP. The level of detail/playability impress me. The general accuracy of the oobs and force strength is very good, as far as my research indicates. I am not seeing crazy battle results. The models and units files provide alot of room for expansion and moddability.

If you are tired of micromanging economics and production and want a good operational level game in which you can still organize and reorganize your forces to your heart's content, I'd recommend NCP.

I went from BoA to NCP which was a step up in complexity, but a welcome one. Going from ACW to NCW should present a very fast learning curve.

[GShock]

Hasn't Clovis "landed" on the NCP world yet?

[Clovis]

Hasn't Clovis "landed" on the NCP world yet?

I'm French but the Napoleonic era isn't my prefered period...

[RamBow]

Personally I am not very good in American History so I can't judge NCP in comparison with AACW. I can say what was a really unpleasant discovery for me in NCP: Eastern Europe map seems to be made basing on modern maps - very different from Napoleonic Era. For instance russian region of Gzhatsk (Gjatsk in French) near Borodino has its modern name Gagarin - it was renamed when Soviets launched their first cosmonaut . And many others - there were lots of changes for the last century. AFAIK the game should be localized for Russia - I wonder is there any feedback from russians about that matter. Honestly now I have some doubts about historical accuracy of NCP in other areas where I can't mark mistakes so easy - I have a degree in Geography, not in History.

[FM WarB]

I'm still trying to figure out what an eger polk is. I'm fairly fluent in German and French, but not in other languages. I agree that there are some anachronisms in region names, all over the place.

It must be difficult to please the linguistic sensibilities of a multinational community. It took me a while to figure out thet Druet was d'Erlon and Mouton was Lobau. :-)

[RamBow]

Well I did not mean linguistic features although it seems logical for me if we have English names for English game version, French spelling for French version and so on. I understand cost of that diversification and don't object against single transcription no matter what language it uses. But when I see there name of Pushkin who was a little boy at that time or Gagarin who was born 100+ years after or city of Grozny "controlled by Chechenia" it's pretty tough to be serious about historical accuracy, sorry.

[berto]

For AACW, we have Gray_Lensman modding the RRs, fixing inaccuracies for rivers, region and city names, weather, etc., etc.

Sounds like NCP needs its own Gray_Lensman!

[Franciscus]

For AACW, we have Gray_Lensman modding the RRs, fixing inaccuracies for rivers, region and city names, weather, etc., etc.

Sounds like NCP needs its own Gray_Lensman!

I have both games, but have played very little NCP. Knowing what you, berto, seem to like and even have done towards improving realism in AACW, specially move rates, attrition, etc, and what others have done, specially Gray, I am afraid that you might be disappointed, although I personnaly feel that NCP is a good game. NCP has several geographical innacuracies (nothing game breaking, but maybe annoying - I and others have already for several times named a few, but they are still uncorrected), and I fear that the same problems that to you are important - move rates, battle results, etc - are probably similar in NCP as they were/are in AACW. BUT I have not played at all NCP with the latest patch, so I might be wrong.
Definitely, I also agree that NCP needs a Gray. Maybe you are the man ?? )

[Nikel]

In this site there are a lot of historical maps that could be used as reference

http://www.davidrumsey.com/


Picture 1 is taken from Europe 2 1816 by Adrien Hubert Brue, 1786-1832, and we can see Gchat, must be the one RamBow is talking about


In the PW campaign there is an example too, Euskadia, the basque country was called Provincias Vascongadas or Vascongadas or by the name of the three provinces (there is no room for that in the map I think), Euskadi is a word invented by Sabino Arana 1865-1903, a racist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabino_Arana

[Pocus]

It always surprise me when people says AACW is not finished. This is (in my own biased position) the most polished and detailed game ever made on the Civil War. I'm not saying the best, to each his taste, but the thousands of hours put into historical accuracy work, not even speaking of the details that the engine can handle, is really impressive!

Michael (Gray) is still spending more than 100 hours per month since the release for example, and this is without counting the thousands of hours others volunteers and the team did on the game.

[aryaman]

Berto
As Franciscus has pointed out, you can be disappointed in some aspects of NCP, IMO move rates is the main problem concerning historical accuracy. Main roads work too much like railways, at least with fair weather, so that you can move very fast (I posted some examples way back in the forum), averaging far more than the historical 20kms a day march.

[aryaman]

In the PW campaign there is an example too, Euskadia, the basque country was called Provincias Vascongadas or Vascongadas or by the name of the three provinces

Yes, I had a good laugh with that "Euskadia", it sounds like the name of some old aunt

[Franciscus]

It always surprise me when people says AACW is not finished. This is (in my own biased position) the most polished and detailed game ever made on the Civil War. I'm not saying the best, to each his taste, but the thousands of hours put into historical accuracy work, not even speaking of the details that the engine can handle, is really impressive!

Michael (Gray) is still spending more than 100 hours per month since the release for example, and this is without counting the thousands of hours others volunteers and the team did on the game.

Although that idea - AACW not being finished - i sometimes voiced, I think that was not the case in this thread. I personally, on the contrary, think that AACW is more than finished, it is near perfect. Never in my gaming history was I so engrossed and for so long with a game. Everything in this life could be better, of course, but that's not the question. NCP might be diferent; I think that a bit more polish and refinement could improve it. But again, I have not played with the latest patch.

[GShock]

I agree with Pocus.

U mustn't forget that even if the patching process is constant, the project is complete and the fact people are working hard on it (and its mods) mustn't be confused with lack of completion or, as they say, hasty releases of incomplete products.

[berto]

Definitely, I also agree that NCP needs a Gray. Maybe you are the man ?? )

Sorry, I have a prior commitment elsewhere. (I'm a member of the Magna Mundi team modding Europa Universalis III.) I play AGEod games for fun, or have been trying to.

It's been said in the AACW forum:

We just have different priorities.

The historical inaccuracies in AGEod's games that concern me most--these seem to be of little concern to many players here, much less ...

... I think it's maybe about time for me to accept that these are essentially finished, "near perfect" games, hold my tongue, and move along.

We agree to disagree.