Napoleonic wars paintings and art

[Nikel]

Searching for some napoleonic paintings by Meissonier I found this place with nice and quality pictures of the napoleonic era, among others

http://www.histoire-image.org/site/rech/chronologique.php


For example, Battle of Eylau

http://www.histoire-image.org/site/zoom/zoom.php?rang=0&liste_analyse=62&f=analyse&from=rech_detaillee&mot=&auteur_id=&auteur=&liste_themes=&type_oeuvre_id=&annee_debut=&annee_fin=&musee=&musee2=&anim_fla=&mots_cles=&auteur_analyse=&type_page=&deb=&rech=&type_analyse=0&oe_zoom=133


They come with a nice explanation in french.



Any other site like this that you know?

[arsan]

Thanks for the link! Looks very Cool!

[CVDon]

Several of them are perfectly sized to be nice backgrounds on the monitor. I wonder if this stuff is copywritten? (copywrited?)

Thanks.

[Nikel]

CVDon, no sure but I do not think so, they are more than a century old. In any case as a desktop wallpaper in a private computer there should be no problems

Other thing could be to use them in a game. So a question to the developers or modders (unfortunately this game has not the same activity than AACW...).

So the questions is, is it possible to include pictures like this, available for free, so that they appear to illustrate battles or events in the game?

[Adlertag]

A very good site but I see that most (all ?) pictures are copyrighted (all rights reserved) but with an authorization of museum owning the paintings it's maybe possible to reproduce them...

This link below shows beautiful and famous paintings from Horace Vernet (I like it very much), you can even buy some copies.

http://www.allposters.fr/-st/Horace-Vernet-Affiches_c29022_.htm

[Nikel]

Thanks for the link Adlertag

There are more sites like that, the problem is that the reproductions are small or like in that place with a watermark. After all they want you to buy the poster or whatever


Found this link, in a russian site dedicated to the invasion of Russia in 1812, and includes some art by russian painters and others. Not the same quality than the one of the first post, but very interesting

http://www.museum.ru/museum/1812/English/Painting/

What do you think of this Napoleon in winter garment by Vereschaginy





Some seem to be missing in the english site, but available in the original russian

http://www.museum.ru/museum/1812/Painting/fore/index.html

[Adlertag]

This picture of Napoleon in winter garment is very original, it's even difficult to state clearly it is Napoleon himself.
Thanks.

[Nikel]

What about a little quiz

[ATTACH]2901[/ATTACH]




About this picture, can you answer these questions?


1 Battle and scene represented

2 Author

3 In which famous TV series is this scene commented? The series I am talking about is ambiented by the time of another AGEod game




Just trying to animate a bit this part of the forum

[arsan]

1- The charge of the french heavy cavalry on Waterloo... NOT making much of an impression on the british squares

2- Lady ... something

3- no idea!

(using google should be forbidden in this kind of quiz games :siffle

Very nice picture by the way
I like a lot a similar one (on smaller scale) i saw in severla places depicting french lancers against a scottish troops square on Quatre Bras.
Don't know the author or the name of the picture, but is beautifully painted...

By the way it was the art on the box of my first Napoleonic boardgame, the Clash of Arms game "La Bataille de Quatre Brass"
Regards!

[Nikel]

Thanks for answering arsan


1 Yes you are right, Waterloo, Cuirassiers charge on the british squares, in this case a Highlanders'. You are right that is showing more the Cuirassiers than the squares

More on infantry squares

http://brokensquare.net/behindthename.aspx


About 2 and 3, perhaps somebody else will answer, so let's wait a bit

But 2- Lady ... something !? Lady Violet?



The other one you talk about is "42nd Highlands at Quatre Bras", here?

http://www.britishbattles.com/waterloo/quatre-bras.htm


Or perhaps this? "Quatre Bras, Black Watch at Bay"

http://www.military-art.com/mall/more.php?ProdID=4933

[Carnium]

What about a little quiz

About this picture, can you answer these questions?


1 Battle and scene represented

2 Author

3 In which famous TV series is this scene commented? The series I am talking about is ambiented by the time of another AGEod game

I have no idea but lets try anyway

1. Charge of French cavalry into British lines ending with British Victory
2. No idea
3. hmmm ... maybe North and South (one of my fav TV series of all times)
The scene at west point where they are talking about one battle and Orry "losses it"

*** DAMN you answered it too soon, give us some time next time leure: ***

[Nikel]

Ouch, sorry Carnium leure:


As arsan had already answered correctly... and as I was not waiting for a lot of answers...


OK, I will wait and will not say if you are right on the number 3


Of course 2 is very difficult, unless you know 1 and search for it

[arsan]

Hi Nikel!

With "NOT making much of an impression on the british squares" i was trying to say that on the battle the charge had little effect on the British squares
That is what happen when two Spaniards try to talk to each other on English!

About the Quattre Bras painting, yes is the second one the Black Watch at bay.
On that paint the struggle seems very desperate!
If i recall correctly i think some of the british units there were nearly destroyed by the french lancers... Maybe this is what the paint represent?

About Lady something... i was mistaken.
Lady Butler painted another very famous Waterloo battle scene: "Scotland forever"
http://eu.art.com/asp/sp-asp/_/pd--10091551/sp--A/Scotland_for_Ever.htm

And also a British square scene, but this time in Quattre Brass
http://www.victorianweb.org/painting/misc/thompson1.html

But i think not the one you has posted

Regards!

[Nikel]

With "NOT making much of an impression on the british squares" i was trying to say that on the battle the charge had little effect on the British squares
That is what happen when two Spaniards try to talk to each other on English!

What a confusion arsan!

About Black Watch at bay, if that was a square, in fact in this case the lancers made a great impression on it


Thanks for Lady Butler's paintings, very nice indeed


Without the watermark

http://images.bridgeman.co.uk/cgi-bin/bridgemanImage.cgi/600.LMG.9713010.7055475/100000.JPG

[Nikel]

So 1 point for arsan, as it was already explained.

And 1 point for Carnium too. Yes, the answer to 3 is North and South TV series. In one of the first chapters at West Point, Orry Main (Patrick Swayze) is asked by a teacher (Military History I suppose) about the orders on how to form a square, assuming he was a regiment commander at Waterloo. He failed the answer (he was thinking on Madeline LaMotte ), so instead to form a square, the regiment elements formed two parallel lines, easy to overcome for the charging cavalry, and so the result of the battle was changed

Then George Hazard (James Read) answered correctly.


Number 2 answer is Félix Philippoteaux (1815-1884)

[arsan]

So... the third point is for you!
That is a perfect draw!
3 questions, 3 posters... one point for each!

[Nikel]

I did not know I could play too


Next time I will ask and answer at the same time, so I will win all the points

[Carnium]

Forgot to check this threat leure:
Thanks for the great quiz.. lets make another one soon

[Nikel]

Carnium, as you liked it I am planning one or two more little quizs or quizzes?

[Carnium]

Carnium, as you liked it I am planning one or two more little quizs or quizzes?

Bring them on

[Nikel]

OK, here it is

With respect to picture 1:

1 Do you know the type of and country of these cavalry troopers

2 Number of regiments that fought in this period

3 The uniform was not so "exotic " along the napoleonic wars, years before the picture it was similar to another unit, which one? By the way, our game is accurate in this aspect


With respect to picture 2, this cuirass is in a french museum and of course it is of the same type that the one that wore the troopers on picture 1

4 Do you know the story of it?

[arsan]

Hi!
Lets try, although i only know some answers...

1- French Carabiners
2- No idea, but not many.... how about 4?
3- No idea...
4- That's easy! The story is sad and brief: the guy wearing it got a cannon ball on the chest and died!

Regards!

[Adlertag]

Some propositions :

All are French troops.

1. Carabiniers of Imperial Guard, 2nd Empire. They have a white metal sun engraved on their cuirass.

2. By 1865, an unique regiment of Carabinier was created by fusionning 2 regiments of line Cuirassiers.

3. Here is the counterpart of 1st Empire : Colonel Lepic at Eylau. See below.

4. This cuirass could be found in the "Musée de l'armée" (Paris, invalides), but I don't have recovered its story, furthermore the museum rooms of 1st empire are closed until 2009 unfortunately for those who are interested by this period.

[Nikel]

arsan, Adlertag, thanks for posting. I will let a pair of days more before posting the answers, perhaps somebody else will try


Adlertag, you seem so sure of you answers that I had doubts!

But I think that I am right. We are talking about the napoleonic wars, NCP is about that So this is about what you call in France First Empire, not the second one of Napoleon III


There is a reason for what you can see in the breasplate, it is a silver rayed sunburst with a star in the centre. The reason it that the two frontal figures are officers, if you look carefully at the figure in the centre and somewhat in the background, you will not see this decoration, because he is a trooper.


The twin picture you posted is by the same author, but they are not the same regiment or unit in a different period of time, Lepic was the colonel-mayor of another regiment at Eylau

[arsan]

Aha!
So they are not from 1812 Russian Campaign... maybe the painting is from the Crimean war on the 1850's ? Tricky Nikel!

Aldertag: i was in Paris last summer and managed to convince my girlfriend to see the Musée de l'armée (no easy task! :nuts ... How disappointed i was when i was told the Napoleonic part (my main interest) was closed leure: leure: leure:
The ww2 part was nice but... hopefully they had put some Napoleon items on display on the Invalids, near his tomb: hat, coat, the sword he carried at Austerlitz...
And i also get another Nappy fix on Pere Lachise Cementery. There is like twenty Napoleonic Marshals and generals tombs all gathered toghether: Davout, Ney, Massena, Suchet, Murat...
Regards!

EDIT: now i´m more confused First empire?? Second empire?? We'll see

[Adlertag]

You are right Nikel, I was confused by the real ressemblance of carabiniers from 1st and 2nd empire...

Arsan : sorry, it is really 1st empire pictures posted by Nikel.

And concerning "Musée de l'armée", congratulations if you eventually managed to convince your girlfriend to follow you into this museum, this was the hardest task, I agree with you ( my wife finally said, after the third time, she doesn't want to visit it another time during our next trip to Paris).
But its true, the Napoleonic part of the museum is the best, so much uniforms, pieces of equipment and more...
Suggest your girlfriend you want to visit Paris in summer 2009...

[Nikel]

Here are the answers:

1 French carabiniers

2 2

3 The uniform before 1810 was similar to the grenadiers', with a tall bearskin cap and no cuirass, they wore a blue coat. Napoleon changed it to reduce losses and wounded, so they had to have a protection like the cuirassiers, but different in style, Napoleon chose a ancient greek-like helmet and a brass-plated cuirass

4 This is the cuirass of François Antoine Fauveau of the second regiment of carabiniers, that died in Waterloo, in the way that arsan said, a cannonball impacted in his chest and right shoulder, as you can see tha cannonball punched through the frontal and back plates. And as Adlertag pointed out, it is in the Musée de l'Armée, Paris.


So 1 and a half points for arsan and half point for Adlertag

[arsan]

Here are the answers:

1 French carabiniers

2 2

3 The uniform before 1810 was similar to the grenadiers', with a tall bearskin cap and no cuirass, they wore a blue coat. Napoleon changed it to reduce losses and wounded, so they had to have a protection like the cuirassiers, but different in style, Napoleon chose a ancient greek-like helmet and a brass-plated cuirass

4 This is the cuirass of François Antoine Fauveau of the second regiment of carabiniers, that died in Waterloo, in the way that arsan said, a cannonball impacted in his chest and right shoulder, as you can see tha cannonball punched through the frontal and back plates. And as Adlertag pointed out, it is in the Musée de l'Armée, Paris.


So 1 and a half points for arsan and half point for Adlertag

Woot!! I won! I won!

Poor Fauveau! The cuirass picture is impressive leure:
Could one of this cuirass really stop a musket bulet??

Thanks for the quiz, Nikel!
We'll we have another soon??
Regards

[Carnium]

I had no clue about this so I passed this time
Great quiz Nikel !

[Nikel]

Yes, poor Fauveau, just imagine, charging on horse and a cannonball impact on your ribs, lung and shoulder, on the ground with a hole through your body! Luckily I suppose he died inmediately.

I am not sure about the bullet, but from what I have read, the cuirass was heavier than the cuirassiers' one, but only due to the brass decoration?


Talking about the game, if you check the graphics of the units you will notice that the carabiniers appear with the two uniforms described, one like the Grenadiers a Cheval and the one with the cuirass and the helmet, very nice.


Arsan, as long as you answer and I had some information available (of course there is plenty of it), I will post more quizzes

Carnium, what type of quiz do you prefer or like?


By the way, I forgot to mention that the picture is "Avant la charge, les carabiniers à Winkowo", by Jean-Baptiste-Edouard Detaille (1848-1912), it is in same museum, Musée de l'Armée, Paris

Winkowo is one of the names of the battle of Tarutino, russian campaign, look here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tarutino