Problem with 1812 scenario

[CVDon]

I tried to play the 1812 scenario six times.

Every time the Russians ignored the Grand Army, scattered their armies into single Corps and Divisions, and ran them all west. There are almost no French/Allied troops in the west or south, so eventually all my supply lines were cut. Game over. [color="DarkRed"](Well, ok, a bit of an over statement. There were at least two large Russian armies. I destroyed the one around Vilnius. The other marched on Warsaw and supported the dozen or so independent corps/divisions. I had nothing to fight it with.)[/color]

Then I tried sliding the whole French army south and east from the area of Vilnius to prevent the Russians from sending their armies west, but the Russians just slid their armies south first and then west, breaking down into a dozen individual "stacks" of single divisions as before (Cav Divs & Inf Divs.) and individual corps, so eventually all my supply lines were cut. Game over.

Finally I gave up on the idea of advancing into Russia and tried the game again, running the whole Grand Army back west to fight in Poland. Russian Divisions actually traveled west faster than I did and I was effectively chasing them toward France. The whole thing was a farce. Game over.

Even when I get troops in front of the Russian Cavalry divisions they just run through me like I was not there. I even had infantry garrisons in my towns defeated by Russian cavalry units.

Do the Russians have supply restrictions? Do they have anything like command/control problems? The fact that the Entire Grand Army is deployed around Vilnius at the start of the game seems to cripple the scenario from the outset. Is there a way to change the starting French Deployment? Can you actually reach Moscow?

[Heldenkaiser]

Finally I gave up on the idea of advancing into Russia ...

I suppose that's what Nappy should have done in the first place ... now let someone claim that good wargames can't be educational tools.

[CVDon]

I suppose that's what Nappy should have done in the first place ... now let someone claim that good wargames can't be educational tools.

A somewhat less than helpfull response. In fact, Napoleon did make it to Moscow, and had he not dithered there for a month he could have made it back out again. He had stockpiles of supplies, sufficient to support the Grand Army on it's march back to Vilnius. The Russians did not sweep into Poland the week after Napoleon crossed into Russia.

I was hoping someone who had success with the scenario would tell me how they did it.

[soundoff]

A somewhat less than helpfull response.

In fact a very unhelpful post. If the object is only to recreate the actual historical outcome then there is little point in playing.

[Heldenkaiser]

A somewhat less than helpfull response.

Just a tongue-in-cheek comment on the problem that really suggested itself, don't you think? I am sorry it was not your kind of fun.

And also sorry that I can't help you. I am just playing this scenario as the Russians and I too have wondered how easy it is for the Russians to become offensive in the South. I am just closing in on Warsaw myself.

I suppose one of the game designers will be able to help.

[CVDon]

I am just closing in on Warsaw myself.

How do you say "SWINE!!!" in French? Or Polish?

I think there are several problems with this scenario.

1) The French forces are too concentrated and badly deployed at the start. Better to back up the clock three turns and let the player spend those three turns deploying the Grand Army as desired.

2) The Russians defend too far west in the opening turns.

3) I think the Russian southern armies are arriving WAY too soon. They did not historically arrive until Napoleon was already retreating.

4) Cavalry raids are too easy to launch, too powerful (can take garrisoned towns), and too hard to counter (my own blind cavalrymen, on blind horses, can't seem to find and/or kill them).

This game just SCREAMS for a Grand Campaign where preconcieved notions about historical campaigns no longer apply. Didn't these guys have a hand in Europa Universalis?

(PS to Heldenkaiser: I did not mean to blast you in my previous response. Sorry if it seemed that way.)

(PPS general comment: This is killing me. I am dieing for a big fat table top game. No one to game with though. leure: )

[Bylandt]

It's possible to win as the french. At the end of the scenario almost all Russian troops were dead and most of the cities captured. I was, however, very lucky with the weather.

1. I think you need be very agressive the first few turns in the centre and destroy as much as you can of the Russian 1st and 2nd armies.

2. Send one or two corps under Davout to the south as soon as you can. The Austrian corps and Augerau are no match for the two Russian armies there. Pull back in that front untill reinforcements arrive.

3. Detach a big corps under Ney towards the north and St-Petersburg.

4. You don't need cavalry at the front. Use cavalry divisions to hunt enemy troops that break through.

5. Don't guard each little city. Click the depot button regularly to see where supplies have amassed and guard those places well.

6. March Napoleon with what's left to Moscou. If you had enough succes the first few turns, you won't need too much troops.

[Heldenkaiser]

1) The French forces are too concentrated and badly deployed at the start. Better to back up the clock three turns and let the player spend those three turns deploying the Grand Army as desired.

2) The Russians defend too far west in the opening turns.

3) I think the Russian southern armies are arriving WAY too soon. They did not historically arrive until Napoleon was already retreating.

From my really limited experience, I tend to agree with these comments. In addition, maybe it is a tad too easy to become offensive with the Armies of the Danube and of the Ukraine. Their corps commanders seem to active most of the time.

(PS to Heldenkaiser: I did not mean to blast you in my previous response. Sorry if it seemed that way.)

[Bylandt]

(PPS general comment: This is killing me. I am dieing for a big fat table top game. No one to game with though. leure: )

If you are prepared to come to Flanders, I'm game.

I'm sitting at home with a broken arm and have nothing better to do.

[CVDon]

So I decided to try again using the advice from Bylandt. Since there were NO RUSSIAN TROOPS IN RUSSIA I just clicked on Napoleon and then Moscow. A couple of turns later Napoleon was in Moscow. Then it snowed and all the French died.

Meanwhile, the Russians seem to be immune to weather, supply, and command problems. They even managed to take the town of Lodz in the snow, destroying my garrison of over 10,000 troops, with an attacking force of 8000. There is no way the Russians had supply on the far west edge of Poland. Every time French/Allied forces left a town they lost about half their strength due to the weather. Russians all seem to have parkas and snowmobiles, plus the occasional air drop of critical supplies.

Now, I will grant that Cossack units did not suffer as much from the cold as other troops did, but the regular Russian army suffered AT LEAST as much as the French/Allied troops.

I think the designers need to give this scenario a little grooming.

[CVDon]

If you are prepared to come to Flanders, I'm game.

I WISH!!! I'm in Virginia, USA. I would love to see Flanders. Not far to Waterloo from there.

[Bylandt]

I WISH!!! I'm in Virginia, USA. I would love to see Flanders. Not far to Waterloo from there.

You are correct. In fact, I live 10 miles from the battlefield.

I'm now playing 1812 again and, yes, the Russians don't seem to need food or rest. Two of my corps, on the other hand, were worthless as fighting forces after two turns of marching partially unsupplied.

Perhaps the Russians are also too much programmed to be agressive. In fact this time not only the armies of the Danube and the Ukraine joined in the attack in the south, several corps from the centre were diverted there too. Meanwhile, the road to Moscou was wide open. Two french corps were enough to take the capital. That should not be possible.

[CVDon]

You are correct. In fact, I live 10 miles from the battlefield.

leure: Ten miles!! leure:

Living in Virginia I am surrounded by American Revolution and Civil War battlefields. I have re-enacted most of them over the years. I even work at the shipyard where USS Merrimack was converted to CSS Virginia, only about 100 yards from the Drydock where the work was done.