arsan wrote:Hi
From what i know, Suchet was one of the few french generals well regarded by (at least part) of the spanish population. If i not mistaken, he was charged for a time with control over Catalonia and Mediterranean coast area and was fairly good on his work there.
PhilThib wrote:Francis I, king of France in the early 16th century, and an expert at being defeated by Spanish arms
arsan wrote:Hi
Other example: on the Grand Armee of Russia in 1812 you could find units from nearly everywhere on Europe... but not from Spain
Ayeshteni wrote:I think there was.
http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/battles/Borodino/Mikaberidze/OrdersofBattle/c_MikaberidzeOOB2.html
4 battalions of the Joseph Napoleon (Spanish) Regiment. (mixed in I and IV Corps)
Ayeshteni
Offworlder wrote: Also remember the numerous French crusaders crossing the borders to fight in Spain (it was actually fashionable for a time especially for Southern French knights) and the several attempts by the French monarchy to annex Catalonia throughout the Middle Ages (usually ending in grief).
Coregonas wrote:In 1167 the catalan count adquired the title of King of Aragon, as his mother was the heir of the title. However, as a rare law fact the Count was not liege of the king... those were two independent "reigns"... After a while, a couple more kingdoms were added Valencia and Mallorca (now spanish regions- "comunitats")
In 1213 there was a battle between the catalan and the Pope "army"... leaded by a french crusader to exterminate " albigense / cataros " heresy in southern france. As a "curious" fact, all those lands were catalan...
As nearly always in the history, catalan people were not powerful enough, and all lands north of the pyrinees were given to the french king.
Fern:
Also, an important "anti-french" idea in part of the spanish lands (including catalonia) is the fact than in the 1700s, the borbon french dinasty (the one Fern explained catalan did not support, still kings in spain, they prefered the Austria) did eliminate all laws of the "old" Aragon Kingdom.
Although those laws perhaps were "better" from the point of view of the central government, those were not approved with a happy song chorus. They were imposed by the force of the weapons. AS a reminder, the actual "parque de la ciudadela" in barcelona was a military citadel, constructed by the borbon army to dominate the city people (not to defend the city from outer assaults), after destroying of course all the houses and areas there.... Just remember law by the force is never going to be accepted.
Napoleon 1808 constitution was also better than nothing, but all spanish people fought against (again) more imposed laws. But what if... Had Napoleon not invaded Spain, sure our Pepa 1812 constitution would be delayed several decades more.
Coregonas wrote:I remember today very few people feels those nationalist ideas you are explaining... perhaps a 5% of the catalan people. I disagree with those ideas, but must expose things as they are.
In 1716 the "Catalan constitutions of 1535" were abolished. Sorry I put this small report in spanish, sure this is a debate too futile for non spanish. I copied from wiki.
" El cuarto decreto que afectaba sólo a Cataluña se dictó el 9 de octubre de 1715, despachado por Real Cédula con fecha de 16 de enero de 1716.
Abolía la Generalidad de Cataluña, las Cortes, el Consejo de Ciento.
Además se sustituía al virrey por un capitán general, al igual que en el resto de los reinos de la Corona de Aragón, y se dividía Cataluña en doce corregidurías, como Castilla y no en las tradicionales vegueries, no obstante los batlles se mantienen.
Se prohíben los somatenes (milicias populares de Cataluña).
Se estableció el catastro gravando propiedades urbanas y rurales y los beneficios del trabajo, el comercio y la industria.
Igualmente, el idioma oficial de la administración dejó de ser el catalán y fue sustituido por el castellano, aplicándose desde entonces obligatoriamente en las escuelas y juzgados.
También se cerraron las universidades catalanas que apoyaron al archiduque Carlos, trasladándose a Cervera, que se había mantenido fiel a Felipe V. "
Sure lots of rare laws were not remembered for the mass of the populace, but I assure changing your native language is something one does not forget just because a few years pass.
I m sorry but I believe this has nothing to do with nationalism, but with imposed laws... Any "poor/uneducated" person can remember this humiliation, as is talking his own childs in his language and so on. He should be forced to talk to the "powerful people" in another language...
My grandmother (is an example) had a hard work with castilian/spanish language, even he was aragonese born, as a child went away. My father didnt understood too much spanish until a brand new "regime" teacher came in 1939. He did leave school around 7 years old as was hurt by him by speaking his own catalan language.
I ve traveled by spain more than 10 years, around 600 flights lots of places ... Unfortunately today, all these good people in spain still has a hard work and confound nationalism with this. (And finally all politics add more confusion, and try to get profit)....
EDIT:
Can not explain why, but seems in the humankind some groups forget his own history with ease, and others retain it a lot more. Just think the universe is not centered in MY group, there are others...
I am explaining from the "minor" point of view of catalan, of course...
Remember every 30-60 years, the catalan people has been forced to do against his will, it is perhaps a long time for a person, but not a long time for a group.
Wiki "La ocupación francesa de Salses, en el Rosellón, con lo que la guerra llegaba a Cataluña, fue el pretexto hallado por Olivares para imponer la Unión de Armas. Sin embargo, el sistema de reclutamiento fue declarado contrario a las constituciones catalanas por la Diputación catalana, y los disturbios surgidos a raíz de la obligación de alojar las tropas terminaron creando un clima de tensión que desembocó en el trágico Corpus de Sangre (junio de 1640) y la secesión catalana, que no sería sofocada hasta 1652.":
1640 1652 - Conde Duque de olivares. Secesion catalana
1700 - 1716 Sucesion Austria - Borbon Decreto de nueva planta
1808 - 1814 Napoleon - Constitucion 1808
1840 - 1 guerra carlista
Offworlder wrote:True enough!
The cities are rather different. Only in Zaragoza offered any real, fanatical resistance to the French under Palafox. Madrid fell pretty quickly and most of the other cities couldn't even stand a siege for one reason or another.
Another face of the war is the almost total disregard for the attempts of the regular Spanish army to fight the French. Example, in Andalucia, the regular Spanish army made repeated efforts to stem the French offensives. Unfortunately the armies were led by lacklustre generals and repeatedly failed to stand up to the French in the open field. Yet rarely do we hear of their efforts, normally because they were denigrated by friends and foes alike.
Only the romanticised life of the guerilla seem to attract the attention of writers, especially foreign ones. In the end if Napoleon wasn't occupied with his northern wars from 1809 onwards, it is concievable that Spain would have felt his wrath for a second time.
Return to “Napoleon's Campaigns”
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests