The "flavor" issue

[FM WarB]

As the number of men per element is mere flavor, the army totals you see are meaningless. Does this also mean that the battle computations are inaccurate?

[arsan]

Not sure i understand...
The numbers are not meaningless. They represent in "flavor" men/horse/guns the strength of the units and elements "hits" of your armies.
The "flavor" thing only means that the battle resolution engine does not count or use individual men or horses on teh calculations, but the stats and hits that each element involved have.
The men/horses/guns are there for the player, so he can see and understand what his forces and losses represent.

Depending of the unit type, each hit can represent a different number of men/horses/guns.
Of course, the statistics of each element forming each unit are different because of the number of hits it have (besides tons of other reasosn like training, moral, experience, armament...)
So a 500 men battalion (lets say with 10 hits worth of 50 mean each) will have a very different stats than a 1500 men regiment with 30 hits of 50 mean each).

In orther words, the game could function exactly the same without this flavor numbers and the battles simulation would be as realist as they are now.
But the player will miss the immersion and flavour of knowing at a glance how many men his units represents and how many casualties he has caused and sustained in battle.
Regards

[berto]

As the number of men per element is mere flavor, the army totals you see are meaningless. Does this also mean that the battle computations are inaccurate?

More than anything (except perhaps its subject matter), I judge a game by how well it simulates history, how plausible and believable it is. To me, the number of men per element is not "mere flavor," and I don't want a game to leave a "bad taste in my mouth." Get the numbers right. Tastes better that way.

[Adlertag]

Besides number of men per element, reproducing almost historically the number of casualties in battle is one of the hardest task for the game engine.

[berto]

Besides number of men per element, reproducing almost historically the number of casualties in battle is one of the hardest task for the game engine.

I believe we're making really good progress toward that elusive goal (given that AGEod retrofits improvements in one game, e.g., AACW, to other games in the series, e.g., NCP).

[aryaman]

The main problem with flavor numbers is in the battle report display.
1) horses are part of the total number, so 12.000 men and 2.000 Horses mean, 10.000 infantry and 2.000 cavalry. rather misleading.

2) Casualties are totals, they include KIA, MIA, WIA, everything. If you take 18.000 casualties and you think that is a very high number, think that they would be like 1.200 KIA, 9.000 MIA and 7.800 WIA. I would like such a display better though, as Berto would say, it would leave a better taste in my mouth.

[jastaV]

As the number of men per element is mere flavor, the army totals you see are meaningless. Does this also mean that the battle computations are inaccurate?

Looking at Model DB, with its complexity, we cannot argue "number of men per element is mere flavor": if so we could have very few models rather than the hundreds have been edited.
When then going to Units DB and how units are edited in setup files, I guess AGEod is doing anything to reproduce historically accurate OOBs.

Indeed, men per element in Models is just one of dozeens of factors to consider: cohesion, morale, but number of men are then important to computate battle results beeing most of losses not casualties but troops disbanded, fleeing out of ranks and so on.

[Gray_Lensman]

Looking at Model DB, with its complexity, we cannot argue "number of men per element is mere flavor": if so we could have very few models rather than the hundreds have been edited.
When then going to Units DB and how units are edited in setup files, I guess AGEod is doing anything to reproduce historically accurate OOBs.

Indeed, men per element in Models is just one of dozeens of factors to consider: cohesion, morale, but number of men are then important to computate battle results beeing most of losses not casualties but troops disbanded, fleeing out of ranks and so on.

You could assign "1" man per hit and the battle computations would be totally unaffected. That's why they are flavor numbers. They are only there to make the battle reports look and feel historic. The only thing the actual battle computations formulas care about is the "Hit" points as far as "damage" is concerned.

[FM WarB]

In devising oobs, if you are assigning elements to a "regiment" what are these elements? Are they companies, two companies per element or half companies? If the number of men per element is flavor, who knows?

As there are differing numbers of companies per regiment across the WiA, NCP, ACW era, and these companies have differing authorized strength, my question remains: what is "flavor," and how are battle correctly computed?

[arsan]

In devising oobs, if you are assigning elements to a "regiment" what are these elements? Are they companies, two companies per element or half companies? If the number of men per element is flavor, who knows?

As there are differing numbers of companies per regiment across the WiA, NCP, ACW era, and these companies have differing authorized strength, my question remains: what is "flavor," and how are battle correctly computed?

If you would make more detailed and elaborate questions instead of cryptic ones probably we will be able to answer you better.
Sorry, but i don't have a clue about what the hell you are asking and what is the problem you want to point
The battle system resolution takes into account the elements statistics and unit hits. Each hit has assigned a "flavor" number of men/horses/guns to show to the player, according to historical data and OOB.

No idea if this has actually answered your question or not
I think you have the game. If so, you can check by yourself what elements represent (companies, battalions, regiments... it deepens of the game and the nationality and the kind of units you are trying to represent) and how the battle is resolved (check the manual).
Regards

[aryaman]

In devising oobs, if you are assigning elements to a "regiment" what are these elements? Are they companies, two companies per element or half companies? If the number of men per element is flavor, who knows?

As there are differing numbers of companies per regiment across the WiA, NCP, ACW era, and these companies have differing authorized strength, my question remains: what is "flavor," and how are battle correctly computed?

Elements are not organical units, they are simply fractions of the organical unit. For instance, the 4 elements in some NCP regiments are not companies or pair of companies (divisions were called back then) they are simply fractions of the regiment. The agregate number is usually correct as the OOB has been extensively researched, only that if you don´t use historical attrition the numbers will be high compared to historical ones because units will be more or less at the official full strength.

[Rafiki]

FM WarB, the numbers you see for men, horses and canons has no impact on the battle resolution; it is simply a number conversion intended to make the size of elements/units more accessible to humans