Jagger
AGEod Grognard
Posts: 949
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:31 pm

Early to Late Infantry/Cavalry

Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:16 am

What determines when early infantry/cavalry converts to late infantry/cavalry?

When does it normally happen--63??

Guru80
Colonel
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:34 am

Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:37 am

Jagger wrote:What determines when early infantry/cavalry converts to late infantry/cavalry?

When does it normally happen--63??


In the Various Events xls there are events such as evt_nam_USA_Early_to_Late5_Period2. There are a bunch of them with the earliest starting in late 61 to early 62 with a 35% probablity of converting to late and the later the year the higher percentage of probability until it gets to 100%.

The CSA seems to have a lower probability of converting to late units and the various units have varying probability percentage of converting.

Jagger
AGEod Grognard
Posts: 949
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:31 pm

Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:00 am

Found it. Thanks Guru!

User avatar
McNaughton
Posts: 2766
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:22 pm

One thing I found was that at 35%, virtually all units had converted before 1862 arose. The % chance happens every round until the unit upgrades, so after about 3-4 turns a unit pretty much upgrades, based upon the early upgrade pattern, later upgrades have a much greater % chance.

I found that upgrades were too quick, with units changing to late war while the game was still in 1861. Here's what I did...

Change the start date of the early upgrade to January 1862 (so no unit can upgrade at all in 1861).

Reduce the % chance from 30-35% to 5% for 1862 (takes about 15-20 turns for a unit to upgrade), meaning by the end of 1862 most units have upgraded. Late 1862, early 1863 seemed to be the turning point in tactics and equipment.

Reduce the % chance to 30-40 for 1863. This pretty much catches other units, but takes about 2 months for new builds to get re-trained to late war standards.

Kept the % chance at 100 for 1864 and later.

This way you actually keep the early war units around for a good deal of time, making the difference between the types much more practical and noticable (because you actually get to use early war infantry).

Jagger
AGEod Grognard
Posts: 949
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:31 pm

Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:44 pm

McNaughton wrote:One thing I found was that at 35%, virtually all units had converted before 1862 arose. The % chance happens every round until the unit upgrades, so after about 3-4 turns a unit pretty much upgrades, based upon the early upgrade pattern, later upgrades have a much greater % chance.

I found that upgrades were too quick, with units changing to late war while the game was still in 1861. Here's what I did...

Change the start date of the early upgrade to January 1862 (so no unit can upgrade at all in 1861).

Reduce the % chance from 30-35% to 5% for 1862 (takes about 15-20 turns for a unit to upgrade), meaning by the end of 1862 most units have upgraded. Late 1862, early 1863 seemed to be the turning point in tactics and equipment.

Reduce the % chance to 30-40 for 1863. This pretty much catches other units, but takes about 2 months for new builds to get re-trained to late war standards.

Kept the % chance at 100 for 1864 and later.

This way you actually keep the early war units around for a good deal of time, making the difference between the types much more practical and noticable (because you actually get to use early war infantry).


McNaughton, I did something very similiar.

I want the change from early war to late war infantry to represent the overall tactical changes which developed through the war as both leaders and troops realized the deficiencies in their tactics. I don't want the conversion to represent troops developing from conscript to average to seasoned troops which could happen relatively quickly. I see those changes represented by the experience stars/conscript conversion. For me, I want the change to represent an understanding and implementation of new, more effective tactics appropriate to their weapons and the typical American terrain.

So I ended up using the following time frames and percentages for conversion of both infantry and cavalry.

Phase I ------ 1862/10/01-1863/09/31-----3%
Phase II------ 1863/10/01-1864/09/31----35%
Phase III------1864/10/01- end of war----40%

As you can see, I used a later transition point. I decided on Gettysburg as my boundary line for the change from early war tactics to late war tactics at least in the East. When massed troops marched over a mile across an wide open field directly into the teeth of massed troops and guns, I am thinking the same early war tactics used at Fredericksburg, Antietam, 2nd Bull Run, etc. So I used 63 as the primary transition point.

The percentages above will produce an overall 48% chance of troops available in Oct 62 converting to late war infantry by July 63. 52% by Oct 63. But then in October, 1863, all troops will do a very quick conversion. Newly recruited troops will convert very quickly in 64 and 65.

Basically I have half the troops convert to late war infantry from end of 62 through 63-with all converted by end of 63. Very, very similiar to your modifications except a bit later transition.

One thing I have to check is whether any units are ever recruited directly as late war infantry.

User avatar
McNaughton
Posts: 2766
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:47 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Sun Nov 04, 2007 4:59 pm

Jagger wrote:McNaughton, I did something very similiar.

I want the change from early war to late war infantry to represent the overall tactical changes which developed through the war as both leaders and troops realized the deficiencies in their tactics. I don't want the conversion to represent troops developing from conscript to average to seasoned troops which could happen relatively quickly. I see those changes represented by the experience stars. For me, I want the change to represent an understanding and implementation of new, more effective tactics appropriate to their weapons and the typical American terrain.

So I ended up using the following time frames and percentages for conversion of both infantry and cavalry.

Phase I ------ 1862/10/01-1863/09/31-----3%
Phase II------ 1863/10/01-1864/09/31----35%
Phase III------1864/01/01- end of war----40%

As you can see, I used a later transition point. I decided on Gettysburg as my boundary line for the change from early war tactics to late war tactics at least in the East. When massed troops marched over a mile across an wide open field directly into the teeth of massed troops and guns, I am thinking the same early war tactics used at Fredericksburg, Antietam, 2nd Bull Run, etc. So I used 63 as the primary transition point.

The percentages above will produce an overall 48% chance of troops available in Oct 62 converting to late war infantry by July 63. 52% by Oct 63. But then in October, 1863, all troops will do a very quick conversion. Newly recruited troops will convert very quickly in 64 and 65.

Basically I have half the troops convert to late war infantry from end of 62 through 63-with all converted by end of 63.

One thing I have to check is whether any units are ever recruited directly as late war infantry.


I don't believe that they are, but, I haven't been using the original files in a while. However, I think the CSA was artificially improved by having 1 or 2 late war elements in some of their brigades. I do remember seeing that under the original method, that there would be elements converted before the unit even trained up!

Our rates are pretty similar, and will probably get a similar result (albiet yours much later). I will keep you informed on anthing else I have noticed in regards to this aspect.

Jagger
AGEod Grognard
Posts: 949
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:31 pm

Sun Nov 04, 2007 5:11 pm

McNaughton wrote:I don't believe that they are, but, I haven't been using the original files in a while. However, I think the CSA was artificially improved by having 1 or 2 late war elements in some of their brigades. I do remember seeing that under the original method, that there would be elements converted before the unit even trained up!

Our rates are pretty similar, and will probably get a similar result (albiet yours much later). I will keep you informed on anthing else I have noticed in regards to this aspect.


Thanks!

The events files give the CSA twice the chance of conversion vs Union infantry. I can't think of a historical reason to justify that conversion advantage. I think the rebs were just as slow as the Union in terms of improving their tactics. Although in terms of game balance, it might be appropriate.

Return to “Modding AGE engine games”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests