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Leibst
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:46 am

Phillip is it possible you are planning something similar to Europa Universalis with AGEOD engine? it will be a huge project but im sure you have lots of data of that european era. Could be a fantastic game.

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PhilThib
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:56 am

Leibstandarte wrote:Phillip is it possible you are planning something similar to Europa Universalis with AGEOD engine? it will be a huge project but im sure you have lots of data of that european era. Could be a fantastic game.


In terms of scope, not sure it would be doable...see the PON game, the engine is getting too slow when faced with multi-factions...would require a major improvement.

But such a map would be very useful for different game projects, and would interest modders: I am aware some would like to do 30YW, some the GNW or Louis XIV's wars, there are guys working on Blood & Iron campaigns, a Turkish Civil War idea, and even a 1914-1918...........all those 'projects' are sometimes just ideas, and won't go beyond the exchange of a few mails... some are led by more "serious" and dedicated people with the will to achieve something (IIRC I know someone doing a SCW project on RUS mod :) )...

So my goal is to offer them the best base map and tool to move forward
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RPHKUSA
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:20 pm

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RPHKUSA
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:28 pm

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RPHKUSA
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:29 pm

I personally would have expanded Morocco Southwards, Russia to the East, Finland needs some love too.

Baris
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:16 pm

Image

Is it better to label like this? Town names are pretty much same as in the maps of Georgian-Armenian war. (1918) I can continue if it is ok.

1-4 = RIZE,Çayeli,Pazar,Findikli

5-12 = ARTVIN,Arhavi,Hopa,Borçka,Ardanuç,Savsat,Ögdem,Kiliçkaya

6-9 = ARDAHAN,Posof,Hanak,Göle

10-12= KARS,Susuz(Grenadersk), Sarikamis

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PhilThib
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:27 pm

RPHKUSA wrote:I personally would have expanded Morocco Southwards, Russia to the East, Finland needs some love too.


Please feel free to do so...it is always possible to slightly increase the map, both eastward and southward...westward and northward is a bit more problematic but possible...however, keep it reasonable, as the larger the map, the less smooth the engine...

FYI, when this map was done, the Volga was tweaked and is shown a bit too much in the west compared to its actual position...so extending the map eastward will allow the Volga to return to her 'normal' bed...

IMHO, the eastward extension should go at least to Baku (who knows, someone would want to do WW2 :D )
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PhilThib
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:29 pm

Baris wrote:Image

Is it better to label like this? Town names are pretty much same as in the maps of Georgian-Armenian war. (1918) I can continue if it is ok.

1-4 = RIZE,Çayeli,Pazar,Findikli

5-12 = ARTVIN,Arhavi,Hopa,Borçka,Ardanuç,Savsat,Ögdem,Kiliçkaya

6-9 = ARDAHAN,Posof,Hanak,Göle

10-12= KARS,Susuz(Grenadersk), Sarikamis



There can be only one name per region...no need to make more...I would suggest you select only the one that is used most of the time over long period of time... Naming / renaming can be done later, as a second step process...
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PhilThib
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:42 pm

RPHKUSA, I sent you a PM for the next steps... :thumbsup: :cool:
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Baris
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:57 pm

I mean apart form the names Ex: Ardahan region was missing nearby Kars region. But Kars region also have some towns missing. Should they be included? It will make region 5 times bigger.

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PhilThib
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:43 pm

Check if the new cut is correct and has enough regions...but we can't make 5 regions where there was only one before...at best we can cut them in two parts....otherwise, they would be just too small to have the game sprites fit in them...
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RPHKUSA
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:43 pm

PhilThib- I can't PM you until tomorrow, but if you want to send me a PM of your email I can forward you the full map as soon as I get your email.

RPHKUSA
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:51 pm

The most was cuts of three from a province, but it was usually an abnormally large province or in a really important location. Madrid got cut up into three, but a new province was crunched out of another three to make that work.

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PhilThib
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:28 pm

RPHKUSA wrote:PhilThib- I can't PM you until tomorrow, but if you want to send me a PM of your email I can forward you the full map as soon as I get your email.


You can use pthibaut@ageod.com :cool:
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RPHKUSA
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:40 pm

Email made, sent, and hopefully retrieved.

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PhilThib
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Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:02 pm

Perfect. Thanks :thumbsup:
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BigDuke66
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Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:15 pm

What about the names used on the map?
Could the province names be moved to a "name layer" so players could turn them on and off? Also the names for bigger things like areas, etc. could be only shown if these map overlays would be activated.
Altogether this would keep the map a clearer with the possibility to removed names for the sake of a better view, we now already have some small regions with structures in it that make problems when units come into it, they get so overcrowded that it is hard to "work" in them.

Also the flow of rivers should be checked, especially in Russia I see some smaller rivers that seem to run a strange course compared to the regions around them, a new map would give the change to make the them run like they run in reality and along them the new regions could be formed.
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PhilThib
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Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:27 am

Rivers courses will be checked once we have finished the new cuts, but they are already taken into account for the suggested cut.

Dynamic on/off display of names is not a map issue, it's a code issue. Names are not printed inside the map, except for those of large areas (where they are part of the "look")...smaller regions names are displayed by code, we may find a way to turn them on/off
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caranorn
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Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:58 am

Might be useful to label change proposals somehow. That is what the new provinces are supposed to represent. I only just now saw some of RPHKUSA's proposals. In Trier province I see a subdivision that strangely resembles my home country. While there is no per -se problem for me with putting Luxembourg into the old Trier province, I see a problem with how the old Metz province now separates Luxembourg (G.-D. to be exact) from Arlon (Belgian Luxembourg) and how there is no trace of the Bitburg region (which consists mostly of German Luxembourg). And I agree, there is no need to include French Luxembourg (too small as far as I recall). Of course I might be misinterpreting things based on the shape of one red line. That's why labelling would be useful so others can cross check the improvements.

P.S.: Will try to follow this thread more closely, no idea how I came to miss two weeks worth of posts...
Marc aka Caran...

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Gatling
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Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:12 pm

BigDuke66
Also the flow of rivers should be checked, especially in Russia

PhilThib
Rivers courses will be checked once we have finished the new cuts, but they are already taken into account for the suggested cut.


The rivers in France need some adjustement too!
Seine and Loire seem to be too short and Rhône is merge with Saône north of Lyon instead of turning east to join Leman lake.

Regards
Gatling

Baris
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Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:37 pm

caranorn wrote:Might be useful to label change proposals somehow. That is what the new provinces are supposed to represent. I only just now saw some of RPHKUSA's proposals. In Trier province I see a subdivision that strangely resembles my home country. While there is no per -se problem for me with putting Luxembourg into the old Trier province, I see a problem with how the old Metz province now separates Luxembourg (G.-D. to be exact) from Arlon (Belgian Luxembourg) and how there is no trace of the Bitburg region (which consists mostly of German Luxembourg). And I agree, there is no need to include French Luxembourg (too small as far as I recall). Of course I might be misinterpreting things based on the shape of one red line. That's why labelling would be useful so others can cross check the improvements.


From what I understand it is about cutting the biggest region in 2 or 3 pieces and name the region afterward process. No need for historical or geography knowledge. A bit confused about the coordination in project.

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PhilThib
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Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:08 pm

It's a very long WIP task...when some regions are done, they will be posted for further discussions
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BigDuke66
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Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:26 pm

Baris wrote:From what I understand it is about cutting the biggest region in 2 or 3 pieces and name the region afterward process. No need for historical or geography knowledge. A bit confused about the coordination in project.


Well if it would be easy they could have done it them self, using historical or especially geography borders is the best way.
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caranorn
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Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:30 pm

Baris wrote:From what I understand it is about cutting the biggest region in 2 or 3 pieces and name the region afterward process. No need for historical or geography knowledge. A bit confused about the coordination in project.


To me it makes no sense to arbitrarily split regions. Particularly if splitting could be done along historic (the Luxembourg example, where the original map here either assumed the Belgian province or actually showed the Province combined with the Grand Duchy, which could then be split into three or four smaller regions based on historic partitions (Grand-Duchy (Luxembourg), Belgian-Luxembourg (Arlon), German-Luxembourg (Bitburg) and maybe also the western part of the Belgian province (Chiny or maybe Bouillon)) and/or physical geographic lines (for instance if a region consists of several distinct terrain types, or has a small river running through it's middle (it need not be of a size relevant for an Ageod game) and splitting would make sense on pure physical justification)...

Anytime before that I drew a game map I either started work from scratch starting with the fixed boundaries of rivers and the oceans and only afterwards starting with locating fixed spots (I'd say 95% of the maps I ever drew were hexagon based, having entirely different requirements from this map project, I don't think I ever actually completed a region-based map, those few of that type I drew I based on verifiable historic subdivisions (ACW county borders for instance)), or by working on top a geographic map (scanned in, or using special paper) (actually the easiest way as you can draw off coastlines, rivers, roads, locate cities etc. and just have to adapt it to the map type (in my case usually hexagons). Anyhow, that's why I don't see how I could help with this project, I'm not motivated to design a new map of this proportion, and can't use any of my usual means to modify the existing map (a few months ago I tried to superpose a map based on these sam files over some scanned maps and realised I didn't even know the map projection used by Ageod and could not bring my map to scale with the Ageod map and I realised there must be a to me unexplainable north-south distortion. All I can try to do is help on a regional basis, that is if somone can take on the project as a whole and I could then offer to verify information for my immediate region (lets say Belgium, Luxembourg and parts of France and Germany).

Now if we wanted an arbitrary division of the map the only logical solution would be hexagons. It might also be the easiest approach as all we'd need would be a hexagonal overlay at the desired scale, redraw the coastlines, rivers and possibly road networks to fit the hexagons (rivers on hexsides, roads from hex to hex, no coastal hexes with less than a certain percentage of landmass etc.), locate important centres (cities, fortresses, ports, resources etc.) and transpose them to the hexgrid. Easiest of course does not mean easy, as drawing a map of the size intended in this project would be huge (and no single source could be used to determine everything that need be included, so it would also require research).

Anyhow, while I'm interested in the current project I feel all I can contribute at this time is a look at someone else's work for my immediate vicinity on the map.
Marc aka Caran...

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PhilThib
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Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:44 pm

Work in progress...

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British Isles, France, Spanish and Italian peninsulas done
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BigDuke66
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Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:30 pm

How about making the passes over the Alps look like rivers that form a way thru these almost impassible mountains, these "Pass regions" would make the crossing points over them much more visible instead of big regions that include a lot area that isn't usable even for the lighter military formations.
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Franciscus
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Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:29 pm

PhilThib wrote:Work in progress...

Image

British Isles, France, Spanish and Italian peninsulas done


Kind of small print to be sure, but the regions of Portugal look OK, EXCEPT the old NCP error of naming the zone north of Faro "Beira", it should be called "Beja"

Is there a possibility of getting a larger view of Portugal, to better check ?

Regards

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caranorn
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:41 am

PhilThib wrote:Work in progress...

Image

British Isles, France, Spanish and Italian peninsulas done


Looking at the area I previously mentionned:

Merch north of Luxembourg should be Mersch, better even make it Diekirch (not because I live there, because it's the seat of the northern jurisdiction, because unlike Mersch it's in the Ardennes, because there are so many reasons not to make it Mersch).
Longwy is a good choice.
Thionville is a good choice.
I can't read what the name for the province north of Arlon is, most logical would be St. Vith (German until 1918, since then Belgian).
What's that small region between Luxembourg, Mersch and Trier? Only thing that comes to mind is Bitburg, but that should be north of Trier and Trier should have a border with Luxembourg.
Something's definitelly wrong with the Belgian province de Namur, Dinant seems to be located about right, but Givet is actually south of Dinant and namur seems extremely close to Bruxelles. Something really odd and no point of commenting further at this point I think...

Philippe could you send me your original file (if it's opanable in software I have, photoshop or illustrator for instance) so I can take a closer look at this region and compare it to other maps?
Marc aka Caran...

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PhilThib
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Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:59 pm

Everything under the purple line and north / east of it is undone, so all your remarks about Belgium are not yet to be considered (what you see is the "old" map). I'll take good note of them for when I shall be tackling those areas
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PhilThib
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Work in Progress

Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:49 am

At last, the whole map has been cut (there might still be a few errors here and there, and some extra stuff, like trade boxes, have been added).. :thumbsup:


Image

Now, the work is still halfway done. Next steps should be (help wanted!!!)

- Find missing names (a lot of regions were cut in 2 or 3 parts, and the names are not set - more or less everything east of the Rhine)

- Add missing minor rivers between the regions

The larger size files (bmp format) can be found here

http://ageoddl.telechargement.fr/3rdParty/Temp/MapCutdone.rar

Thanks
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