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Captain_Orso
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Transported Artillery Batteries Destroyed By Passing Bombardment

Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:07 am

The title actually says it all. This game is running on Patch 1.17RC3.

Details: David D. Porter and Andrew H. Foote with a fleet of 8 ironclas, 8 gunboat squadrons, 5 riverine transports of 4 elements and 1 riverine transport of 2 elements are transporting Lyon*** (Army of Northeastern Virginia), 3 other generals, 3 brigades of [X][X][•], 2 brigades of [X][X][/], 1 brigade of [X][X], 1 sharpshooter rgt, 5 [/] rgt, 2 [•]20lb and 1 [•]10lb. from Cairo to Edmund AR (harbor to harbor).

As the pass Island #10 they are bombarded taking 40 hits, giving none in return.

The turn after running Island #10 and arriving in Edmund AR the 3 artillery batteries are nowhere to be found. The bombardment report only says that 40 hits were made, but of course not what was hit. The battle reports says nothing of the bombardment. When looking back at all the units from before they set sail some of the ironclads start out with some damage. On the turn after arriving in Edmund they have less damage than when they got their orders. Of course they could be being repaired in Cairo before they set sail, but there is no way to account for 40 hits from bombardment on the ironclads. The gunboats and transports have minimal differences, which could easily come from wear-n-tear, the same with all the land units.

The only conclusion that I can come up with is that the 3 batteries took all the bombardment hits and were destroyed, which makes no sense what so ever.

Is there anywhere in the game files which actually records what happened in the bombardment?

Turn before and after the move, plus logs attached.

Edit: Same turn, still Island #10. I've just discovered something that's even more crazy. Island #10 bombards the 6th Marines as they arriving in Gibson TN, which is land-locked :bonk: They start in Saint Louis MO and use the Riverine Transport Pool down to Cape Girardeau and then land in Paducah specifically so that Island #10 cannot bombard them, which it could if they landed in Columbus KY, then they move on per Rail Transport Pool through Columbus KY and into Gibson TN, where they are bombarded by Island #10(!!) and destroyed :( . Somebody seems to think that they packed up their transports onto the train and took them along, so Island #10 thought they might as well bombard them. I know the Marines are a tough and rowdy bunch, but common :wacko:
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Artillery missing after running Island #10.rar
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Jarkko
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Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:32 am

1.17 with QF2:

Forts bombarding passing fleets indeed seem to nuke out the transported artillery sitting inside the ships, while the transport ships themselves are unharmed. There is something fishy with the bombarding algorithm.

Also, the game apparently thinks marines&sailors using their special ability to cross rivers/swamps are in fact fleets. Hostile forts will happily bombard them as they are marching out there.
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Captain_Orso
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Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:29 am

..eh.. yeah, what he said :blink:

;)

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Captain_Orso
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News Flash

Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:59 am

I updated to patch level 1.17 QF2 and reran the turn. The artillery being transported by Porter's Fleet is still targeted by the bombardment from Island #10, but the 6th Marines did not get bombarded.

So only one issue to look into :) .

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Pocus
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Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:07 pm

humpfttt
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Captain_Orso
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Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:56 pm

That was my reaction too :innocent:

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Captain_Orso
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Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:40 pm

You may "humpfttt" further again. Island #10 has stuck again bombarding an artillery doing the exact same as above but now in patch release 1.17 QF2. I reran the turn a number of time. Sometimes it bombards, sometimes it doesn't. If it doesn't there's a massage in the Mail Box saying the the artillery slipped passed Island #10.

Game save attached; turn after being bombarded plus Backup1

edit Pocus: massage, really?
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Pocus
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:17 pm

I might look at this bug in a probable near future, in one of the universe bubble that may exists.


ps: massage is done by who? I might be interested.
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Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:36 pm

I may not have been clear on which bug re-occurred. It's the bombardment of a land unit.

This is the plotted move. All other units have been filtered out of this screen shot with <Ctrl><F4>:
Image

I restored and reran the turn a number of times. About half the time the land unit is bombarded and half not.

If the Unit is bombarded a message appears in the Mail Box at the bottom of the screen stating that the Unit was bombarded and the number of hits it took; in this case 6, which destroys the battery. When clicking on the message in the Mail Box the screen centers on Humboldt, TN:
Image

If the Unit is not bombarded a message appears in the Mail Box at the bottom of the screen stating that the Unit "succeeded in bypassing the defenses of Island 10" and when clicking on the message in the Mail Box the screen centers on Island #10:
Image

I hope its clear now which bug I am reporting as 're-'occurring. The first time I encountered this I was still on 1.17RC3 and after breaking the turn out of the game and rerunning it on 1.17 QF2 when it didn't occur I though it might have something to do with the same compilation issue that caused all regions to report that they were 'Wilderness', so I left it at that. It's obvious now that the issue is more deep-rooted.

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Pocus
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Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:18 am

Thanks for the detailed explanations. I'll look at it this week.
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lodilefty
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Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:21 pm

I suspect it may be that the unit is using both Riverine and Rail movement, so maybe the fort thinks they are still on the river...

..or that the railroad is also transporting the riverboats!

Can you make the move with Riverine move off?
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Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:55 pm

I'll test it tonight when I get home, but I am pretty sure it happened to me when I had a marine along providing the movemement bonus (was slogging on foot southwards west of Island 10, when the island opened fire to my "slight" suprise...).

Didn't recently something change with how the game handles marines&sailors movement bonus? At least it *feels* like stacks with them now move faster over rivers&swamp, but then again it just be my bad memory of how it was before.
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Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:52 pm

Captain_Orso wrote:I updated to patch level 1.17 QF2 and reran the turn. The artillery being transported by Porter's Fleet is still targeted by the bombardment from Island #10, but the 6th Marines did not get bombarded.

So only one issue to look into :) .


I can confirm that I have this same issue in my current WIA game referenced here. I moved the British fleet that appears in Cheasapeake Bay in the summer of 1814 (the troops that historically burned Washington) down to New Orleans in order to capture that before Jackson gets there. On its way, the fleet got bombarded by (one or two) Coastal Batteries. Upon arrival in the Gulf of Mexico, the ships had only taken minimal attrition (probably from bad weather), the infantry aboard the ships was in top condition, but the artillery units transported by the fleet had lost up to 3/4 of their hits.

This happened on WIA 1.10d. I can provide saves if needed.

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Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:58 pm

Captain_Orso wrote:You may "humpfttt" further again. Island #10 has stuck again bombarding an artillery doing the exact same as above but now in patch release 1.17 QF2. I reran the turn a number of time. Sometimes it bombards, sometimes it doesn't. If it doesn't there's a massage in the Mail Box saying the the artillery slipped passed Island #10.

Game save attached; turn after being bombarded plus Backup1

edit Pocus: massage, really?


Finally got time to look.

1. To be clear: this is a land unit moving via Riverine transport to Paducah, then via Rail to Mumpis.
2. I reran your save several times, and never got shot at nor got a 'evaded fire' message.
3. I replotted route through Columbus[?] and got shot at: WAD - DAR
3a. Through Columbus, set the USA unit to Evasive move & passive [green] posture: never got shot at, no evasion message - WAD, I think.

I think that the use of Evasive Move/Passive solves this, so we move on...

Taijian wrote:I can confirm that I have this same issue in my current WIA game referenced here. I moved the British fleet that appears in Cheasapeake Bay in the summer of 1814 (the troops that historically burned Washington) down to New Orleans in order to capture that before Jackson gets there. On its way, the fleet got bombarded by (one or two) Coastal Batteries. Upon arrival in the Gulf of Mexico, the ships had only taken minimal attrition (probably from bad weather), the infantry aboard the ships was in top condition, but the artillery units transported by the fleet had lost up to 3/4 of their hits.

This happened on WIA 1.10d. I can provide saves if needed.


Different situation" you have arty loaded on Ships. WIA does not have the Riverine Transport stystem of AACW.
Why not plot a move via Ocean Regions to avoid Coastal batteries?????

Please post a save of this so we can examine the damages. No promises, though. If there is a DB fix, maybe, but a new WIA.exe is pretty much not likely...
Post turn with the damages reported, and the backup folder of the immediate precedng turn....
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Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:23 pm

I'm at a loss. The first time it occurred I only had to rerun the turn a couple of time for it to reoccur. After your report I tried again. I first did a clean installation to have a set of files to compare with those in ..\Settings. I confirmed that I have no setting other than default and those which can be adjusted using either the games interface, the games AGEsetting.exe and manually turning off Army Wrapper display are to be found.

I reran the turn about 20 times -- I wasn't counting -- and didn't get a bombardment to occur very often, only about 5 or 6 times. There seems to be a concurrence with other combat, but that my be purely coincidental.

What I can say is either the artillery is bombarded or a message is generated reporting that the unit evaded the Island #10 defenses. The latter can be easiest found by filtering the Mail Box for 'movement and restriction orders' (the curvy arrow, middle left on the filter buttons).

You've seen the screenshots, and I can assure you that I've not manipulated any of them other than editing them for clarity. I can also put up a film of a bombardment occurrence if you wish, made with CamStudio.

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Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:24 am

lodilefty wrote:Different situation" you have arty loaded on Ships. WIA does not have the Riverine Transport stystem of AACW.
Why not plot a move via Ocean Regions to avoid Coastal batteries?????

Please post a save of this so we can examine the damages. No promises, though. If there is a DB fix, maybe, but a new WIA.exe is pretty much not likely...
Post turn with the damages reported, and the backup folder of the immediate precedng turn....


OK, here you go...[ATTACH]20728[/ATTACH]
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Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:32 pm

Captain_Orso wrote:I'm at a loss. The first time it occurred I only had to rerun the turn a couple of time for it to reoccur. After your report I tried again. I first did a clean installation to have a set of files to compare with those in ..\Settings. I confirmed that I have no setting other than default and those which can be adjusted using either the games interface, the games AGEsetting.exe and manually turning off Army Wrapper display are to be found.

I reran the turn about 20 times -- I wasn't counting -- and didn't get a bombardment to occur very often, only about 5 or 6 times. There seems to be a concurrence with other combat, but that my be purely coincidental.

What I can say is either the artillery is bombarded or a message is generated reporting that the unit evaded the Island #10 defenses. The latter can be easiest found by filtering the Mail Box for 'movement and restriction orders' (the curvy arrow, middle left on the filter buttons).

You've seen the screenshots, and I can assure you that I've not manipulated any of them other than editing them for clarity. I can also put up a film of a bombardment occurrence if you wish, made with CamStudio.


hmmm. I saw it in your save, but simply cannot get it to occur in mine! :blink:

Does the evasive move Special Order stop the occurance entirely?
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Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:41 pm

Taijian wrote:OK, here you go...[ATTACH]20728[/ATTACH]



Thanks. Very much a repeatable issue.
I'll send it on to the Master, but cannot promise any quick response....

Tactically, I got into habit of plotting my moves up and down the coat by 'forcing' the ships to go via the 'ble water', at least to pass the coastal forts....
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Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:54 pm

lodilefty wrote:hmmm. I saw it in your save, but simply cannot get it to occur in mine! :blink:

Does the evasive move Special Order stop the occurance entirely?

Evade combat makes no difference. Ether the unit is bombarded or the 'succeeded in bypassing' message is reported.

This makes no sense to me. Are you on patch level 1.17 with QF2?

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Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:25 pm

lodilefty wrote:Thanks. Very much a repeatable issue.
I'll send it on to the Master, but cannot promise any quick response....


Well, thank you for investigating!

Tactically, I got into habit of plotting my moves up and down the coat by 'forcing' the ships to go via the 'ble water', at least to pass the coastal forts....


Ahem, yeah, in this case... must have been insubordination of the Admiral's part...

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Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:31 am

I did set up a test game on Friday evening, ran tests quite a few times, and didn't succeed to get the fort to bombard my land moving troops, wether they were marines, moving with rail&riverine, or whatever.

However, in my current PBeM game it happened, as a unit moving with rail&riverine movement through a province next to a fort got bombarded (ie was moving on land during the bombarding). I can send the save if needed.
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Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:17 am

I updated to 1.17a on the weekend and tested again. You only need to have the Use Riverine Transportation button pressed on the moving unit to be at risk of being bombarded. Whether you march or use Rail Transportation passed the bombarding units makes no difference.

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Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:35 pm

Taijian wrote:I can confirm that I have this same issue in my current WIA game referenced here. I moved the British fleet that appears in Cheasapeake Bay in the summer of 1814 (the troops that historically burned Washington) down to New Orleans in order to capture that before Jackson gets there. On its way, the fleet got bombarded by (one or two) Coastal Batteries. Upon arrival in the Gulf of Mexico, the ships had only taken minimal attrition (probably from bad weather), the infantry aboard the ships was in top condition, but the artillery units transported by the fleet had lost up to 3/4 of their hits.

This happened on WIA 1.10d. I can provide saves if needed.


Hi,

I was a tad slow, and a mail from Steve sat in my mailbox since November 16, but I finally came to check the problem. It is fixed! Now, fleets get hits on ships before on their passengers, and not the reverse.
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Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:54 pm

Pocus wrote:Hi,

I was a tad slow, and a mail from Steve sat in my mailbox since November 16, but I finally came to check the problem. It is fixed! Now, fleets get hits on ships before on their passengers, and not the reverse.


Do you mean you have a fix to release, or all the final patches/quick fixes have solved this already?

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Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:10 pm

Neither sorry... I should have said that we don't plan to release a patch for ACW1 for now. By the way I fixed the bug thanks to a WIA save...
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