AGEOD Forums

This game rocks!! After 2 weeks of two campaign, now I understand why this is a so much loved game.

But now I got confused, I have been playing the 1863 campaign as CSA, now I took back most of TA, but this Union Army with 1500 pwr sticks at this Tuscombia LA with only a harbour. I tried to starve him out by blocking the river up north with 5+ trenches and ships. However, it doesnot seem to work, so I switch side to the union and found that it can receive 200+ supply!! from where? I then turned off the AI and surround the army with CSA troops to eliminate any possibility that they are receiving supply from sea in the south (through river and hill, not likely though). But after many months it still gets supply. This really killed my interests for continuing unless I can find out the reason.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


The unit panel here is showing troops from somewhere else. the units in Tuscombia LA are in health full greenish supply! Did I miss anything here??

The units in Tuscumbia are probably not getting any supplies from outside and I doubt that they need any. The are getting them from inside the region. The Supply Status at the top of the screen does not show how much supply is arriving in the region, but how much is there at the time and how much is being produced there.

First, welcome to the forums!

My bet is that you have not pressed the button for "bombard" on your entrenched troops that are interdicting the Tennessee River.

If you've done that, try sticking some Ironclads on the river.

Remember, he might be able to get supply from BOTH directions on the Tennessee River. (I see the USA owns at least one region to the East).

Captain_Orso wrote:The units in Tuscumbia are probably not getting any supplies from outside and I doubt that they need any. The are getting them from inside the region. The Supply Status at the top of the screen does not show how much supply is arriving in the region, but how much is there at the time and how much is being produced there.

well, the units displayed in the panel is not the guys sitting in Tuscumbia, my bad, should make a better screenshot... Anyway, there are around 1500pwr force there, and the require lots only supply. That region produce 11 supply. And most importantly, you can see from the tooltip, it is receiving 250+ supply!!

Remind me to never answer a post after midnight again

Things suddenly look different this morning

Yes, they are getting a lot of supply sent in.

Longshanks, do you actually have to have 'bombard passing fleets' activated to block resources moving through a river region?

Extract from Hobbes' Hobbes' Quick Reference Guide, stickied in the AACS General Forum:

"For riverine supply distribution using the riverine pool, movement is blocked by regions which have either an enemy naval unit or are under the guns of a fort with artillery or a unit with positioned artillery (lvl 5+ entrenchments)."

Longshanks wrote:First, welcome to the forums!

My bet is that you have not pressed the button for "bombard" on your entrenched troops that are interdicting the Tennessee River.

If you've done that, try sticking some Ironclads on the river.

Remember, he might be able to get supply from BOTH directions on the Tennessee River. (I see the USA owns at least one region to the East).

Thanks for the welcome!! I have being browsing anonymously for quite a while and learned a lot from this forum

I did set the bombard for the trenched units on both sides of that region. Do I need costal Art to block the supply? and I send in some ironclad as well, no effect. Note: I can't send ship to the river east of that region, it is shallow water(?). But now even after I have full control along all the river side to the east. it still get supply flew in. Does he has an airport or what?

Hard to make sense out of things without the savefiles. If the river is overlooked by +5* entrenched guns set on bombard, then they are most likely getting supply by land. Showing a brown color doesn't necessarily mean for a region that it doesn't let supply through. My guess is that supply comes from either Helena, AR or Columbus, KY and that either the McNairy-Tishamingo or the Tippacanoe-Tishamingo route has still enough loyality and control to the Union to let supply through. My guess is the former. Check if the Union has at least 25% military control in either route, or any other route, for that matter.

Look up Wiki here


*is it +5 really? In the wiki it is still +4

Citizen X wrote:Hard to make sense out of things without the savefiles. If the river is overlooked by +5* entrenched guns set on bombard, then they are most likely getting supply by land. Showing a brown color doesn't necessarily mean for a region that it doesn't let supply through. My guess is that supply comes from either Helena, AR or Columbus, KY and that either the McNairy-Tishamingo or the Tippacanoe-Tishamingo route has still enough loyality and control to the Union to let supply through. My guess is the former. Check if the Union has at least 25% military control in either route, or any other route, for that matter.

Look up Wiki here


*is it +5 really? In the wiki it is still +4

Thanks for your answering!! But CSA have 100% MC around that region.
I would very much appreciate it if some veteran can take a look at the save file here. I feel like I can't go on with this game if I could not figure this out...

The save is already in 1866 as I switched off AI for more than 1 year just to see if that union army get starved out or not. Funny they have much smaller pwr now than one year ago, maybe 'cause the NM is 0?

I fired the error logging on and in section

12:55:55 (Reporting) ***** Sea Resupplying - Start ***** of file !HostLog.txt

received the following lines

12:55:55 (Reporting) This region can receive: 558 Lake, TN ,Supply call value: 20
12:55:55 (Reporting) This region can receive: 613 Tuscumbia, AL ,Supply call value: 211 [color="Red"]<-- region in question[/color]
12:55:55 (Reporting) This region can receive: 639 Camden, AL ,Supply call value: 16

meaning that at least 3 harbours in Tennessee and Alabama receive supply by sea lanes in this scenario.
I checked and moved transports out of sealanes and bingo! the supply started to dwindle.

Had not imagined that. I first eliminated all other possibilities by having the nearest depots being conquered (Helena and Cairo) and having rail and river pool being occupied (put some union corps on rail & river transport).

Thank you for reporting this bug.

Wow, I did not expect this leads to a bug report...though I also tried to use up train and river capacity but never thought of directly from the sea!!

I opened the game and sees those three regions are occupied by the Union, so in theory there might be more regions get connected to the sea!? So you mean it's a bug this particular scenario or might be in all the campaign scenarios. Please forgive me my lack of knowledge in this.

Well... why can't I be as motivated as this in digging out bugs in my own work

Citizen X wrote:I fired the error logging on and in section

12:55:55 (Reporting) ***** Sea Resupplying - Start ***** of file !HostLog.txt

received the following lines

12:55:55 (Reporting) This region can receive: 558 Lake, TN ,Supply call value: 20
12:55:55 (Reporting) This region can receive: 613 Tuscumbia, AL ,Supply call value: 211 [color="Red"]<-- region in question[/color]
12:55:55 (Reporting) This region can receive: 639 Camden, AL ,Supply call value: 16

meaning that at least 3 harbours in Tennessee and Alabama receive supply by sea lanes in this scenario.
I checked and moved transports out of sealanes and bingo! the supply started to dwindle.

Had not imagined that. I first eliminated all other possibilities by having the nearest depots being conquered (Helena and Cairo) and having rail and river pool being occupied (put some union corps on rail & river transport).

Thank you for reporting this bug.

shi4stone823 wrote:Wow, I did not expect this leads to a bug report...though I also tried to use up train and river capacity but never thought of directly from the sea!!

I opened the game and sees those three regions are occupied by the Union, so in theory there might be more regions get connected to the sea!? So you mean it's a bug this particular scenario or might be in all the campaign scenarios. Please forgive me my lack of knowledge in this.

Well... why can't I be as motivated as this in digging out bugs in my own work

Well, I don't believe these ports were meant to receive supply by sealanes, therefore must be a bug. Can't say however if it is with regards to game engine or scenario.

However, now I think this can still be a by-catch to features that are wad. For instance it is possible to sail the Mississppi with seatransports. Therefore I always suspected (but never had the need or drive to find out) that the Mississippi ports can be supplied by sea. Never imagined though that this could be done for other ports in the entire river system, too.

1. Arty, etc. will shoot at passing ships, and a fort/entrenched arty contributes to blockade [equals max 4 ships]. Not cumulative for multiple forts.
2. None of the 7 river regions between Tuscumbia and Cairo, IL are blocked. [Hover mouse to see number of additional ships required to block]
3. Automatic Riverine supply moves 1 region/day in Fair or Mud, 1 region every 2 days in Snow. [thus, can move 7 regions in a turn in Snow]
4. Cairo is the supply source.

No bug WAD.

FYI:

bloAdjFriendlyFort = -4 // brown water blockade, bonus given by adjacent fort
bloAdjEnemyFort = 4 // same, for an enemy fort (malus)
bloMinSUToBlockade = 8 // Nb of SoL elements needed or pts given by a fort to blockade a zone
bloValueBySU_LinkCut = 23 // Perc chance for each combat ship (cumulative) that a transition link over water is cut between 2 land regions.
bloMaxPerc_LinkCut = 90 // max chance to have the link cut.
bloMinSUForLinkCut = 4 // Min nb of elements in offensive posture in a water region to cut the transition link between 2 adjacents land regions
bmbHitCoeffLand = 20 // coefficient (in hundredth)to land efficiency for bombard
bmbHitCoeffNav = 5 // coefficient (in hundredth)to ship efficiency for bombard
bmbMaxHitsDoneByLand = 50 // How many hit points can be done by Land units against a fleet
bmbMaxHitsDoneByNav = 25 // the reverse
bmbMinEntrenchLevel = 3 // Minimum level to reach by an artillery so that it can bombards or interdict ships
bmbRange = 5 // Minimum range a gun should have to fire on passing ships

So it is a misunderstanding that trenched Art alone can block river supply????
How do I see the source of supply? I see Cario has 0 sent supply...

shi4stone823 wrote:So it is a misunderstanding that trenched Art alone can block river supply????
How do I see the source of supply? I see Cario has 0 sent supply...

Forts and entrenched artillery [if in supply] contribute, not totally block.

Interdict in this case means "shoot at and contribute to blockade".

lodilefty wrote:

1. Arty, etc. will shoot at passing ships, and a fort/entrenched arty contributes to blockade [equals max 4 ships]. Not cumulative for multiple forts.
2. None of the 7 river regions between Tuscumbia and Cairo, IL are blocked. [Hover mouse to see number of additional ships required to block]
3. Automatic Riverine supply moves 1 region/day in Fair or Mud, 1 region every 2 days in Snow. [thus, can move 7 regions in a turn in Snow]
4. Cairo is the supply source.

No bug WAD.

FYI:

I see, thanks for replying so quickly.

However, I am still puzzled. As I said above, even with Cairo in CSA hands Tuscumbia still received supply. Every second turn about 250 something. After all, I spent quite some time eliminating every possible source of supply nearby as thouroughly as I could think of. And then there is still the issue that that supply for Tuscumbia appears in the sealanes supply section of the Hostlog, as I have reported. And that supply stopped for Tuscumbia only when I removed all transports from the sealanes. Can it be that blockading a harbor is not the same as denying it supply coming by river? In the Wiki it clearly states that an entrenched force with a cannon is enough to stop riversupply. I also read somewhere in an old thread (hm, was it Grey_Lensman's supply primer after all?), that one riverine ship is enough to block supply running past it, as long as it is no transport. But this may have changed now.


I just did one more thing. Changed nothing, just moved the Union fleet out of the shipping box. Tuscumbia received no more supply henceforth.
Thus I believe it only received supply through sealanes. I don't believe that a force in the middle of the continent is supposed to receive supply by seaships. Hence I can only think of either a bug or a flaw in design.



In several subsequent turns the following inland harbours were noted as receivers of sealanes supply. Not all of them in the same turn, though.

DstRegion 613 Tuscumbia, AL receiving 291 supply from 106 Baltimore, MD Naval Pool at 1829
DstRegion 639 Camden, AL receiving 58 supply from 5 New York, NY Naval Pool at 1163
DstRegion 558 Lake, TN receiving 57 supply from 1084 New England Naval Pool at 1310
DstRegion 31 Niagara, NY receiving 96 supply from 1084 New England Naval Pool at 2003
DstRegion 639 Camden, AL receiving 38 supply from 97 New Castle, DE Naval Pool at 2082
DstRegion 823 Helena, AR receiving 15 supply from 106 Baltimore, MD Naval Pool at 1348
DstRegion 823 Helena, AR receiving 12 ammo from 106 Baltimore, MD Naval Pool at 1336

Citizen X wrote:I see, thanks for replying so quickly.

However, I am still puzzled. As I said above, even with Cairo in CSA hands Tuscumbia still received supply. Every second turn about 250 something. After all, I spent quite some time eliminating every possible source of supply nearby as thouroughly as I could think of. And then there is still the issue that that supply for Tuscumbia appears in the sealanes supply section of the Hostlog, as I have reported. And that supply stopped for Tuscumbia only when I removed all transports from the sealanes. Can it be that blockading a harbor is not the same as denying it supply coming by river? In the Wiki it clearly states that an entrenched force with a cannon is enough to stop riversupply. I also read somewhere in an old thread (hm, was it Grey_Lensman's supply primer after all?), that one riverine ship is enough to block supply running past it, as long as it is no transport. But this may have changed now.


I just did one more thing. Changed nothing, just moved the Union fleet out of the shipping box. Tuscumbia received no more supply henceforth.
Thus I believe it only received supply through sealanes. I don't believe that a force in the middle of the continent is supposed to receive supply by seaships. Hence I can only think of either a bug or a flaw in design.



In several subsequent turns the following inland harbours were noted as receivers of sealanes supply. Not all of them in the same turn, though.

DstRegion 613 Tuscumbia, AL receiving 291 supply from 106 Baltimore, MD Naval Pool at 1829
DstRegion 639 Camden, AL receiving 58 supply from 5 New York, NY Naval Pool at 1163
DstRegion 558 Lake, TN receiving 57 supply from 1084 New England Naval Pool at 1310
DstRegion 31 Niagara, NY receiving 96 supply from 1084 New England Naval Pool at 2003
DstRegion 639 Camden, AL receiving 38 supply from 97 New Castle, DE Naval Pool at 2082
DstRegion 823 Helena, AR receiving 15 supply from 106 Baltimore, MD Naval Pool at 1348
DstRegion 823 Helena, AR receiving 12 ammo from 106 Baltimore, MD Naval Pool at 1336

Transports can sail in AllWater, so I suspect that this allows supply inland....

We'll look at changing this, but it won't be an instant "offering": too many subtle effects possible.

Where in Wiki is the "forts block" statement you cite?
It may be obsolete or [gasp!] wrong! [What a concept! That the Wiki, by definition a living-breathing document, may not be perfect ]
Will check/fix when I can find it!

Send a fleet up there to blockade the harbor and you're done. If the harbor doesn't say "blockaded", then they're getting supplies in.

Speaking "ex Cathedra": the Master will look at this, but soonest will be at least 2 weeks..

Ocean Supply going inland is non-sensical.

Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne wrote:Send a fleet up there to blockade the harbor and you're done. If the harbor doesn't say "blockaded", then they're getting supplies in.

And when you send the fleet, make sure it has enough gunboat/ironclad elements to actually blockade the port.

lodilefty wrote:Transports can sail in AllWater, so I suspect that this allows supply inland....

We'll look at changing this, but it won't be an instant "offering": too many subtle effects possible.

Where in Wiki is the "forts block" statement you cite?
It may be obsolete or [gasp!] wrong! [What a concept! That the Wiki, by definition a living-breathing document, may not be perfect ]
Will check/fix when I can find it!

Here.

Last paragraph before "Effect of sea transport" chapter.

The manual speaks only of forts, however the +4(+5) entrenched artillery statement stands uncorrected in several threads in the forum, including this one.

Forgive me but exactly how are you seeing how much supply is getting through and produced?

I want to check my games for that.

I only know how to check how much supply each region is received or send out, by hovering your mouse on top of the region in question in supply map mod. But as to where did these supply come from or where they go, I have no clue.

Those text lines posted above showing where the supplies goes and by what means are from hostlog files in the log folder. don't know how to check them in game...

H Gilmer3 wrote:Forgive me but exactly how are you seeing how much supply is getting through and produced?

I want to check my games for that.

Citizen X wrote:Here.

Last paragraph before "Effect of sea transport" chapter.

The manual speaks only of forts, however the +4(+5) entrenched artillery statement stands uncorrected in several threads in the forum, including this one.

AACW Wiki has not been maintained.
I'm really not sure whether those statements are still true, with all the changes made since that was written (in March 2009)

Stay tuned. We'll sort this out and put correct info in the AGE Wiki.

shi4stone823 wrote:I only know how to check how much supply each region is received or send out, by hovering your mouse on top of the region in question in supply map mod. But as to where did these supply come from or where they go, I have no clue.

Those text lines posted above showing where the supplies goes and by what means are from hostlog files in the log folder. don't know how to check them in game...

No direct way to check in-game, but you can open the file in a text editor [notepad, CONTEXT, etc.] and <alt><tab> to it after each turn.

H Gilmer3 wrote:Forgive me but exactly how are you seeing how much supply is getting through and produced?

I want to check my games for that.

You can only check from subsequent turns. Memorize a cities supply stock in supply map mode and check after turn resolution.

If my math not fails me it is true that

production (p) equals the difference of combined current stock (c) plus sent supply (s) and last turn stock (L) minus the received supply (r)

In short

L + p - s + r = c | - L + s - r

p = c + s - L - r


errr

We may want to set a production monitor on the wishlist for aacw2

There is decay kicking in, but only at high level (above one thousand per region at least)