Omnius
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Leslie's Army MIA?

Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:45 pm

I was playing a game as both sides with the AI turned off and I got to summer 1776. I had moved my British fleet to Boston in May so that it would be ready in June to ferry Leslie's Army to New York. All of a sudden it's August and Grey's Army shows up as the second contingent without Leslie showing up. Leslie didn't show up through September.

The game before I had a problem with Leslie showing up in Nova Scotia instead of Boston which the British controlled. I had my fleet in Boston. I decided to rerun and figured that Leslie would show up in Boston the next time. Several tries later and I decided to move my fleet to Nova Scotia and wouldn't you know it but Leslie didn't show up at all. Leave my fleet in Boston and Leslie shows up in Nova Scotia, move my fleet to Nova Scotia and Leslie pulls a no show.

Is there some connection between reinforcements showing up and where and the AI settings? I tried the least aggressive AI stance and no FOW help and it seems like the British reinforcements are a little screwy from what I've seen normally. I do have a saved game of Grey being on the map without Leslie's first contingent. Kind of wrecks a game when reinforcements are all screwy.
Omnius

Omnius
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Burgoyne's Army MIA?

Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:14 pm

I started another game with the AI off. This time I got Leslie's Army at Boston in August. Cornwallis's army didn't show up until August also and as of August Burgoyne's spring arrival in Quebec was still lacking. Something seems a bit screwy with the British reinforcements in the 1775 alt. scenario when playing solo with the AI turned off.
Omnius

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PhilThib
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Location: Meylan (France)

Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:52 am

The AI on/off has no impact on British reinforcements arrival. Their location is a bit randomized, but not the date! Have you made a save of this game ?

Omnius
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Got Saves

Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:44 pm

PhilThib wrote:The AI on/off has no impact on British reinforcements arrival. Their location is a bit randomized, but not the date! Have you made a save of this game ?



PhilThib,
I figured the AI being on or off shouldn't impact British reinforcement arrivals. I knew that locations were randomized as I've rerun and got reinforcements to show up in other cities. I even figured timing might be a little random, but not 6 months or more. I was surprised that when I tried rerunning that the British reinforcements of Leslie didn't randomly reset to Boston. I've found that if the British turn 2 reinforcements don't show up on turn two that things are going to be flaky for British reinforcements the rest of the game. I got saves and will be forwarding them to you.
Omnius

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PhilThib
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Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:48 pm

Thanks, send them to support@ageod.com. We need to see if a wrong event at some point in the game has an impact on the next ones (should not logically, there are different keywords, dates, conditions)... this has never happened to me despite numerous games on the lobster side... :siffle:

Omnius
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Files Sent

Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:28 pm

PhilThib wrote:Thanks, send them to support@ageod.com. We need to see if a wrong event at some point in the game has an impact on the next ones (should not logically, there are different keywords, dates, conditions)... this has never happened to me despite numerous games on the lobster side... :siffle:



PhilThib,
I sent the files yesterday. Since I delete my old games I'm wondering if somehow when I start new games if old game data stuff is somehow sneaking back into the saved game files. I did do a couple of no-AI games and the reinforcement schedule seemed fine. Now it's kind of screwy each time I play. I hope something shakes out to find the problem.
Omnius

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Pocus
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Location: Lyon (France)

Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:57 pm

Don't forget that in the alt campaign, reinforcements date are somehow randomized. With some bad luck, a delay of 6 turns can happen.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

Omnius
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A Better Alternative

Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:39 pm

Pocus wrote:Don't forget that in the alt campaign, reinforcements date are somehow randomized. With some bad luck, a delay of 6 turns can happen.



Pocus,
I think the alt scenario needs to have less randomization of arrival dates for reinforcements. Some late reinforcements can really change the complexion of a game and pity the poor player that gets whacked by late arrivals. I think that a little randomization is good, but too much ruins the scenario balance. Besides you don't want the randomization messing up the order where Grey's second contingent can arrive before Leslie's first one.
Omnius

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PhilThib
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Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:26 pm

We shall think about this for BOA2... what would be your average ideal random factor ?

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Pocus
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Location: Lyon (France)

Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:38 am

the Alt scenario can be improved... for example you split the event in two. If after x turns of random checks the reinforcements are not there, the second event kick in and it triggers at 100% chance. This is more a modding work than anything else, as we can't be everywhere :)
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

Omnius
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Random Thoughts

Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:27 pm

PhilThib wrote:We shall think about this for BOA2... what would be your average ideal random factor ?


PhilThib,
If you're trying to make the scenario emulate history then the random factor should be very low. Also you need to consider play balance as randomly late reinforcement arrivals can really swing the advantage to one side. I'd keep randomness small, one or two turns max, to keep things fair yet not too easy to predict. For a hypothetical scenario you can go with a larger random factor, 4 to 6 turns, if it doesn't alter play balance much. I'd try to keep large reinforcements close to their proper arrival time and vary smaller reinforcements more as that won't affect play balance as much. For two humans playing you don't want one getting screwed with late arrivals and not liking the game anymore.

The French first reinforcement group should have a larger arrival time window because it was not known quite when France would intervene. I'd see that needs to be tied more to American performance, ie. hanging in there. While the victory of Saratoga got the French thinking more positively about helping the Americans it was the loss at Brandywine and then Washington going back for another battle quickly that made the French feel more secure that the Americans wouldn't crap out on them if they did intervene. Might be tough to model that kind of arrival trigger but I think the scoreboard might be a good alternative for the French arrival trigger to enter the war.
Omnius

Omnius
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:15 pm
Location: Salinas, CA

Failsafe Trigger

Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:31 pm

Pocus wrote:the Alt scenario can be improved... for example you split the event in two. If after x turns of random checks the reinforcements are not there, the second event kick in and it triggers at 100% chance. This is more a modding work than anything else, as we can't be everywhere :)


Pocus,
Having a "failsafe" trigger would certainly help the random factor from getting too far out of hand, or if you could incorporate that into the initial event trigger that would be nice. While random is good, too much randomness can be a very bad thing. Plus there seems to be little randomness as far as getting reinforcements early. Randomness should not be construed as solely late.
Omnius

tagwyn
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Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:57 pm

PT: Tilting to imperialism and greed are you!! Hurray for George and the boys!! This was is much like Vietnam in reverse. You French remember Vietnam don't you? L3

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