Super Stacks

[Plugger]

Goodaye,

Having read the Bill Trotter (excellent and very positive) review on the Wargamer site of your Civil War game he mentions the issue of "super stacks" in relation to BoA.

Super Stacks in the sense that you have the ability to form a great big chunk of unhistorical military power that marches around the map beating up everyone. He also makes the contrast with the Civil War game in that AGEOD have solved this problem by using C&C rules to limit the number of units in any one place at a time.

Having played with the demo I can see (correctly?) that with enough supply wagons and leaders you could indeed do a Godzilla-like stomp around Colonial america, squashing all comers.

I've a couple of questions on this. The first is to the owners of the game asking if Bill Trotter is correct in his criticism (minor though it is in comparision with his overall view of BoA) that Super stacks are a problem in BoA?

The second is to the designers asking if BoA gold includes anything to address this perceived problem?

Cheers,
Plugger

[Pocus]

We do not believe this is a such an enormous problem in BOA, because if you are concentrated in a place, you are not elsewhere, and thus (British super stack) the American guerilla will have quite a lot of opportunities to take strategic town, thus recruiting more. It is like some operations in Vietnam. You send a whole air cav division hammering a region, but the guerilla is moving and grabbing land (not to say winning hearts and minds) in nearby zones.

For the BOA standalone add-on, we will perhaps make some adjustments, as cohesion is being introduced. For example big stacks will recover much less cohesion.

[Plugger]

Goodaye,

Fair enough. Thanks for the prompt reply.

Cheers,
Plugger

[Hobbes]

I was going to reply to this but I see Pocus has already made the points I would have. Having played the full campaign PBEM as British I did not feel the stack size of my armies became un-historically large. You certainly would not
win if you had only a couple of massive stacks. You need to control large areas.

Cheers, Chris

[orca]

In some ways the attack on New York in 1776 was just such a super stack.

I agree that it's not an effective strategy for the British. It is pretty effective as the Americans, but by the time they are in a position to build a super stack they've pretty much won the game.

[Pocus]

but your opinion has more value than mine in many instances, because you are also a customer Chris <g>

[Omnius]

I've found that super stacks are rather tough to do in 1.12a. With the new, improved, tougher supply rules one has to almost have a movable depot to keep a super stack in supply. I can still make big armies as the British playing against the hardest level American AI but I also found I need to be more careful about supply, especially when moving a super stack away from a depot. Now one has to balance that super stack with spreading out to keep all units in supply while also maintaining order in captured cities.

I think that original review is rather passe now when playing 1.12a and the problem of super stacks has been mitigated nicely.
Omnius

[Stwa]

I've found that super stacks are rather tough to do in 1.12a. With the new, improved, tougher supply rules one has to almost have a movable depot to keep a super stack in supply. I can still make big armies as the British playing against the hardest level American AI but I also found I need to be more careful about supply, especially when moving a super stack away from a depot. Now one has to balance that super stack with spreading out to keep all units in supply while also maintaining order in captured cities.

I think that original review is rather passe now when playing 1.12a and the problem of super stacks has been mitigated nicely.
Omnius

I would like to second this appraisal of the 1.12a patch. I have played several 1775 scenarios with the Brits.

1. I found it necessary to build a depot in coastal cities that did not have them. Like New York. To do this I had to spend the two supply wagons.

2. I did the same thing in Charleston, and Norfolk, I think. I ended up with no wagons, but good depots.

3. The supply rules virtually eliminate monster stacks, and you can't make any mistakes, or the army will starve and desert quickly. Moving inland from the depots is risky, especially if the weather goes bad, or you lose a battle or you are forced to fight more than one battle and run out of ammo.

4. Also, when those big Brit Armies arrive from Europe, you had better start dispersing them quickly to the various towns, or as in my case, load them back on the ships and send em down south to a empty level 3 (or 2), city if you can find one. Build a depot and then you can send out normal sized stacks to capture the other towns from your supply base.

So I like 1.12a, but I was wondering how this was different from 1.10d, which is the version of the digital download from Matrix.

Pocus left us with impression that supply worked six months ago? If so would that be 1.10d. Just wondering.

[JD63]

Check ot the mod for 1775-1783 by Jaegger (6 below yours in the forum)

[Stwa]

Check ot the mod for 1775-1783 by Jaegger (6 below yours in the forum)

I checked that out, very interesting. I will probably try that out after I have done some of the stock scenarious.

But, I would also like to say, the goal should not be soley to eliminate large stacks. After all, "large" armies were fielded during the war. But for me 1.12a may be acomplishing the following points.

1. Armies take time to build up supply and replacements. Several months or more if not near a depot.

2. Using 1.12a I am constantly concerned with the supply question, and plan my movements accordingly. This is good, I think. With 1.10d, I hardly payed attention to food and water, because it was never really a problem.

3. 1.12a makes Burgoynes march south to Albany (or any march into remote areas) very trying from a supply point of few. (I mean food and water).

4. Troops need to be spotted into their own cities for replenishment between engagments. Once re-supplied, they could consolidate into a larger stack, trundle toward the objective, fight, and then repeat the process.

5. In the end, the harder supply rules, slow things down considerably, becuase you are always having to STOP and wait for supplies to become available. This seems realistic to me at least.

6. Because fewer depots and large cities are in the South and West, the supply question becomes ever more accute in these areas.

[JD63]

The referenced mod makes superstacks stupid,,,it accounts for unit type/terrain/weather etc. I'm playing it now PBEM and it is great.

[JD63]

Oh, and supply of course