AGEOD Forums

I'm a little worried about what posture to put besieging units into. If I put them into a defensive stance the units I'm besiging would be free to walk out of the structure - or relieving forces to walk in without impediment I think?

If I put them into an aggressive posture I would be the one to lose defensive advantage if a relieving force entered the region in a defensive posture or if the structure defenders decided to sally forth (but in a defensive stance) This all seems a little odd.

It also made me think about the siege of fort Schulyer and the fact that a combined irregular and milita/regular force were able to execute an ambush :-

"The Tories chose an ambush point 6 miles east of Fort Schuyler, not far from the Oneida village of Oriska. Dense virgin forest provided excellent concealment for forces around a ravine where an old military road descended to cross marshy little Oriska Creek. Butler's Rangers and Johnson's Greens were deployed to hit the head of the column while the Indians attacked the flanks and rear. The idea was to surround the column in a U-shaped pocket and close the open end of the trap."

It seems that in BoA only lone irregular forces are able to set an ambush. Maybe a combined force should also have this option?

Cheers, Chris

Aren't all the units at that battle irregulars and indians? Butler's and Johnson's were certainly irregulars. In the game any army can ambush as long as it is made up of only irregulars or indians. Seems vaguely realistic although there were some regulars at, for example, Braddock's defeat. Regulars should make it much harder to ambush, or perhaps only bthe irregulars and indians would get the ambush bonus if there are militia or regulars with the army.

You might be right about Oriskany but I thought there were some loyalist milita or regulars involved? If not the example of the French against Braddock is a good one - regular troops at one end of the road with irregulars/Indians
at the side. Maybe the ambush chance should be the same if 50% of the force is made up of irregular or Indian units.

Chris

if you sortie, the code switch you automatically in agressive posture, so that a besieger can stay in defensive while besieging (this is theorically what should happen, if not there is a bug).

It works fine. It is just not documented anywhere. I had to figure it out myself also.

To be clear for those who may not know, if you take an army that is besieged in a structure, pick them up and put them in the countryside, they will automatically assume an aggressive posture and attack the besiegers.

Thus to answer the original posters question, it is safe to always keep besieging units in defensive posture if you wish.

There is also an icon beside the units panel that allows them to sortie. I like using the icon better, as (I think) they will sortie out to attack the besiegers, then move back into the structure??

I was told that sortie button only works if the besieging force is attacked by another outside force, then the units in the structure will sortie out to join the battle. Otherwise, they just sit there.

yes.

Oh, OK. I guess that makes sense.

Pocus wrote:yes.

Ohhhh ... and then how to make a 'sortie' without outside help ??

Set your defending troops to Attack/Assault posture.

or simply drag&drop your stack outside the city.

From the new patch :-

Units will only retreat into a city/fort if the special order "enter destination structure" is activated.


This made me wonder whether a unit set to sortie that survived a battle would re-enter it's destination as it is using the flag to "sortie" rather than to "enter destination structure"?

This also made me think that it is quite confusing for me to understand what would happen in the circumstances below even though I have been playing the game for a year. I like the fact that the game is complex and I expect it to handle the possibilities listed below as one would expect - but I thought I would list them in case they throw up any possible bugs and also to hopefully gain some understanding from Pocus (when you get time ) or anyone else if they can shed some light. I could test all of these but I thought I would highlight what to me is a grey area.

Scenario :-
British besiging an American held structure with an aggressive posture.

1 American unit inside the structure set to sortie - 1 American unit entering the region with an aggressive posture flagged to enter structure.

The Americans lose the battle but :-

The American unit entering the region is not wiped out - will it retreat into the structure? What if the unit on sortie is wiped out?

The American unit entering the region is wiped out - but the unit on sortie is not - will the unit on sortie re-enter the structure even though
the flag to enter stucture was not set (the flag has a dual purpose - enter structure or sortie - there is no sortie and enter structure flag)
What if the Americans won - would the unit set to sortie stay outside or re-enter the structure?

What if there were 2 units in the structure but only 1 was set to sortie.

What if the American unit entering the region entered with a defensive stance?

What if the British unit besiging the structure had a defensive stance for all of the above rather than an aggressive stance?

The American leaders skills (Skirmisher for instance) also have a bearing on where he will retreat to.

I find this pretty confusing but it can have a fairly large impact on the game
if you lose a strategic town in PBEM from a lack of understanding of the above (I haven't but I'm trying to avoid that fate )
Cheers, Chris

One other question :-

If you set a unit that is outside a structure - to enter structure - will he do so during the turn even if no combat has taken place? I assume that he would not and that the only reason that the enter structure button would be pressed would be to allow him to retreat into the structure should he lose in combat?

I hope all the casual players are getting this

To put it into context - If I have a relieving force entering a region where I am besiged and the relieving force is pretty equal to the investing force would I be better off also making a sortie from the stucture? If I do so would I be better off keeping at least one unit in the stucture? What would happen in reality in this situation and is this well modeled in the game? You can get an idea what Pocus has to put up with in my private emails from this!

Cheers, Chris

I will answer what is the expected behavior. If it does not perform like that on the field, you can see it as a work as not designed feature

Hobbes wrote:From the new patch :-

Units will only retreat into a city/fort if the special order "enter destination structure" is activated.


This made me wonder whether a unit set to sortie that survived a battle would re-enter it's destination as it is using the flag to "sortie" rather than to "enter destination structure"?

This also made me think that it is quite confusing for me to understand what would happen in the circumstances below even though I have been playing the game for a year. I like the fact that the game is complex and I expect it to handle the possibilities listed below as one would expect - but I thought I would list them in case they throw up any possible bugs and also to hopefully gain some understanding from Pocus (when you get time ) or anyone else if they can shed some light. I could test all of these but I thought I would highlight what to me is a grey area.

Scenario :-
British besiging an American held structure with an aggressive posture.

1 American unit inside the structure set to sortie - 1 American unit entering the region with an aggressive posture flagged to enter structure.

The Americans lose the battle but :-

The American unit entering the region is not wiped out - will it retreat into the structure? What if the unit on sortie is wiped out?

if a structure is besieged, units which were not besieged are not allowed to enter it.

The American unit entering the region is wiped out - but the unit on sortie is not - will the unit on sortie re-enter the structure even though
the flag to enter stucture was not set (the flag has a dual purpose - enter structure or sortie - there is no sortie and enter structure flag)
What if the Americans won - would the unit set to sortie stay outside or re-enter the structure?

a besieged unit always re-enter the structure it was in, if flaged to retreat.
the button slot is shared by 2 orders, BUT they are not the same. So if you ordered a sortie, you stay outside if you win. This is not the same order, code-wise, as the 'enter asap' one.

What if there were 2 units in the structure but only 1 was set to sortie.

what what? The second one is not commited to battle, unless the Brits are on assault.

What if the American unit entering the region entered with a defensive stance?

Sortie triggers only if the external units are on offensive/assault.

What if the British unit besiging the structure had a defensive stance for all of the above rather than an aggressive stance?

no combat take place, unless there is less than 5% USA control in which case the relieving unit auto-switch to offensive, this trigger a battle, and the unit besieged and set to sortie is commited too.

The American leaders skills (Skirmisher for instance) also have a bearing on where he will retreat to.

no longer. You only retreat in a structure if you were besieged into it, or had the 'enter asap structure' order AND the structure was not besieged.

I find this pretty confusing but it can have a fairly large impact on the game
if you lose a strategic town in PBEM from a lack of understanding of the above (I haven't but I'm trying to avoid that fate )
Cheers, Chris

this is confusing because the situation is complex, and there is many subcases, as you show by giving many examples situations. Hopefully the code is ok and can handle all the cases. If not, report the situation to me.

Hobbes wrote:One other question :-

If you set a unit that is outside a structure - to enter structure - will he do so during the turn even if no combat has taken place? I assume that he would not and that the only reason that the enter structure button would be pressed would be to allow him to retreat into the structure should he lose in combat?

I hope all the casual players are getting this

To put it into context - If I have a relieving force entering a region where I am besiged and the relieving force is pretty equal to the investing force would I be better off also making a sortie from the stucture? If I do so would I be better off keeping at least one unit in the stucture? What would happen in reality in this situation and is this well modeled in the game? You can get an idea what Pocus has to put up with in my private emails from this!

Cheers, Chris

Enter structure triggers only if you move into a new region, which is the last one of your course OR if you are engaged into a battle, where you have to retreat. So it should works as you say.

Thanks for the clarification Pocus, I will test out any remaining that I am unsure of.

Cheers, Chris

Is it just me or is anyone else having trouble ambushing successfully?
I would expect my ambushers to fire once against a larger force & then run away. But no - they stay seem to stay around to fight it out with the larger force & are destroyed.

What am I doing wrong? (Wood, Defensive, Set Ambush)
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve my performance?

ps - The Ambush button tool tip says "Setting an Ambush 40%" & doesn't change even if I have a leader with an "Ambusher" skill with the army. Is this correct?

The retreat chance is not 100%, and if they fail they can be destroyed in a single hour. But I agree that it can be worth the look, if you have a saved game around (zip me the whole saved game, including the backups directory please, so I can restore the turn before the battle).